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Handbrake Initiation.

Iggy

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
50
Location
Ashland. Wi
Can I initiate oversteer with the hand brake with my VR-4? If I understand correctly I can as long as the clutch is engaged, but I don't want to brake anything locking the rear wheels without locking the front.
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
You can, or you can learn to drive it like an awd car and not like a Honda.
 

belize1334

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
3,316
Location
Bozeman, MT
It won't hurt anything but you'll be disappointed with the results. For the life of me I cannot get the tail to step out with a handbrake. The center differential just works too well. Even on icy roads where a quick pull would make my old honda spin circles the GVR4 just slides sideways for a second and then goes into a 4-wheel skid. You might get a "little" help with turn in but it's not gonna go all "dorifto" for you.
 

Iggy

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
50
Location
Ashland. Wi
I'm pretty sure every single AWD rally car driver still uses their handbrake to pitch the car into the turns.
 

thomcasey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
907
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Watch them closely, they use power and twitching of the wheel.
 

MellowVR4

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Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
Subaru's might be different tho /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 

thomcasey

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Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
907
Location
Indianapolis, IN
GETTING PLAYFUL: So let’s take a high-speed left hand sweeper (like the section from the bridge to the uphill hairpin on Camp Brule at Baie-des-Chaleurs). <b>You come in fast – maybe 80kmh after the bridge, and turn the wheel to the left a little. A stab on the brakes suddenly shifts the weight to the front wheels and lightens the rear, pitching the car into a left-hand slide. Once you’ve got it sliding, you get off the brakes and straighten the wheel, so you’re in a nice left-hand drift with the wheels clawing in towards the apex of the turn.</b> Hold the throttle steady to keep the balance and ride out the long drift. If you’re getting a little wide (watch those concrete blocks!) lift your right foot a little and press with your left foot on the brake a little to shift weight to the front. Once the line tightens get back off the brake and hold the throttle steady. As you begin to exit the corner, get on the throttle to straighten the car out for the exit and to accelerate. Whoo-hoo!! You did it! You’re probably still going 80kmh. And all the steering you did was a little left twitch before the corner began in order to start the slide.

GETTING FANCY – THE PENDULUM: Some corners are really tight, and you’re not going to get the car to yaw around them enough with the normal technique described above. If you try to turn in really hard you’ll probably understeer off the outside, and even a normal drift may not be tight enough. <b>Don’t reach for the handbrake. Instead, do a “pendulum” turn, or a “Scandinavian Flick.”</b> By turning the car into a slide away from the corner and then snapping it around to slide in the right direction for the corner, you will transition the car more quickly than if you just turned in alone. Here’s how you do it, for a left-hand pendulum: 1. start on the inside of the approach road, or at least with enough room to snap out wide. 2. turn right - away from the corner – and touch the brakes to initiate a right-hand slide. Use this slide to scrub off some speed – as we said above, use it as your braking. 3. turn the wheel left – into the corner – and punch the throttle for a second. This will transfer weight to the rear wheels and cause the car to snap (yaw) hard to the left. 4. straighten the wheel as the car snaps left and balance the throttle to hold your left-hand slide. As above, adjust with throttle and brake as necessary to shift weight. 5. As with a normal corner, get on the throttle as you want to straighten out and accelerate to victory!
 

thomcasey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
907
Location
Indianapolis, IN
HANDBRAKES: <b>The handbrake on the rear wheels is a destabilizer.</b> I don’t like it too much because it pitches a car into a slide without shifting much weight to the front wheels and so in a high-speed drift it can be unpredictable. However, if you’re about to go off the road, or if you have a very tight corner and not enough speed or room to initiate a pendulum, then you can consider pulling the handbrake. If you have a hydraulic handbrake with a long lever, like mine, you can have a little more control. But it’s a blunt tool. <b>Note that AWD cars with viscous centre differentials (i.e. almost all of them) will not allow you to use the handbrake for the rear wheels only – the diff will lock and you’ll be braking all four wheels, but not with much force. You’ve been warned.</b>
 

prove_it

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Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Quoting Iggy:
I'm pretty sure every single AWD rally car driver still uses their handbrake to pitch the car into the turns.




I had no idea we had a pro rally driver join in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Newbie initiation. Seriously though, no not every rally driver does it. Ken block does in his video, and that's for show and show alone. Now I'm curious what your real intentions are. Are you wanting to rally cross this car? Or are you wanting to power slide it in an attempt to "drift" it and get scene points?

Honestly, no one I know pulls e-brake on their awd other than to keep the car from rolling whilst parked.

I'm giving you crap, hope you take it well, but I honestly read your question and saw your signature and immediately thought your only goal is to look "cool" in your new toy.
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Oh and in the video posted, it looks like he's using a hydraulic rear hand brake set-up. This is far from using the stock hand brake with it's worn and stretched cables that your more likely to slow one tire rather than lock up both rear tires.
 

iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2001
Messages
10,964
Location
Michigan
Quoting 89Patches:
It can be done. Here's Tristian Catford's VR4: click



LOL at the shift boot.
 

Iggy

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
50
Location
Ashland. Wi
I do want to learn to drive fast on low traction surfaces, dirt, grass, snow, But I also like a good bit of overstreer just for the fun of it.
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Its called the gas pedal and if that's not enough read and learn how to do a Scandinavian flick.
 

FlyingEagle

Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
1,635
Location
THE Ottawa
Quoting MellowVR4:
Subaru's might be different tho /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



Automatic and Standard shift transmissions got different center differentials for the most part. Auto in my 05 = multiplate clutch pack, 5 speed stick = Viscous center diff.

My 05' Legacy Auto, seemingly locks up (feels like all 4 in the snow - have to re-investigate with fresh powder but ...) all 4. Don't quote me yet, maybe it was just a grippy situation
in the snow that day, but I have the clutch pack style center and it only operates when front slip is detected and the ECU/TCU wants to send power balance to the rear (solenoid activates and pack is engaged).
I can't see it knowing that I am E-braking.
Anyways, I have the popcorn out in case there is anything to add to this.
 
Last edited:

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
click me


also grown ass man turbos help as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
Last edited:

holeshotmoe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
1,291
Location
MD
Quoting iceman69510:
Quoting 89Patches:
It can be done. Here's Tristian Catford's VR4: click



LOL at the shift boot.



Yeah, was laughing at that swaying skirt too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Maybe go with a Barbie head filled with jb-weld.
 
Last edited:

EMX5636

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,631
Location
Bucks County, PA
Quoting prove_it:
Oh and in the video posted, it looks like he's using a hydraulic rear hand brake set-up. This is far from using the stock hand brake with it's worn and stretched cables that your more likely to slow one tire rather than lock up both rear tires.




^ This. Most cars that do what you are expecting, are converted to a hydraulic handbrake using separate or the existing calipers. There just isn't enough leverage to in the cable setup of most AWD or RWD cars to fully lock the rear wheels with power applied or fighting the center diff.
 
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