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Last time out with 431 at island dragway....

Gizmovr4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
366
Location
andover,NJ
431 has been running 9 second quarter mile times for the past 4 years. During this time we have been experimenting with different setups to perhaps run 8s in the future. What most don't realize is how difficult it is to consistantly run fast times for this long.

Last Saturday Nate and I took 431 to the track once more to test a few things.... We learned a few things but almost lost the car in the process!
We suffered the most devastating engine failure to date !

Recap of the day :

First run - 10.2 @ 138 no launch just second and third gear pull @30psi to test boost control

Second run- 9.521@150 mph soft launch - car pulled hard up top - thus the 150mph trap and only 117mph at the 1/8 mile

Third run - 9.707 @117 mph car left hard !! 1/8 at 122mph ( 5mph faster than run#2) when the car shifted to 3rd we suffered the engine failure !! Still went 9.7 breaking at half track /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif


As if breaking at over 130 plus mph wasn't bad enough - the left side rear tire blew causing the car to hook right toward the right side retaining wall. 431 didn't hit the wall - so we are lucky in that respect.




Here are pictures of the engine failure ..... Rod nearly split the engine in half - only held together by small piece on the deck !!










After reviewing the parts and block .... The remainder of the pistons and rods look great including the spark plugs and valves. The damage is isolated to #1 cylinder only ! This was at 48psi - most boost we have run thru this 2.3 liter combo.

Due to the height and extent of the damage we believe the wrist pin may have failed - causing the rod to spin out both sides !!

As for the future of 431!!!! New motor is already in the works /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
As always many thanks to Nate Crisman for helping pick up the pieces !!!







 
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Gizmovr4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
366
Location
andover,NJ
These runs were last last Saturday 7/12/14 - for those of you that asked .

Found the piston on top of the transmission !!!





 

92_talon_awd

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
456
Location
Knoxville, TN
Holy crap, worst block damage I have ever seen /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 

89Patches

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Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
723
Location
Ontario Canada
That's Impressive. I'd keep that block and make something outta it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I give this a 10/10
 
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ade

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Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
303
Location
Paumanok NY
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif wow!!! i definitely second the make into a table idea!
 

NateCrisman

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Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
literally, the connecting rod cut the block in half! We are assuming the wrist pin shattered...leaving the piston at TDC (to smash up valves). Then the rod just swung around free and smashed all the black/oil pan and anything it could touch. smashed the coolant water pipe and the #1 runner of the tube header, oil dipstick tube, smacked up the driver's axle jack shaft. utter destruction in 360* path of a full length con rod on a 100mm stroke crank! flying parts also cut through the nitrous feed line, and some wiring/hoses behind the motor and beat up the front/hood of the car.

funny thing: 2,3,4 pistons/rods look salvageable as are all the 2/3/4 valves and likely all the valve train parts. Nelson also thinks the crank is fine (Manly 100mm) as the big end of the rod still spins free on the journal!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

I can't wait to see the motor in person, as I was shitting a golden brick for this last week that I blew this up due to a tuning/setup mistake. We have been making a lot of changes...bumping fuel pressure due to lean AFR (previous run was touching 13:1 AFR with 2150cc FIC injectors at 100% duty cycle with 55psi of base pressure) , raising boost (we got it up to 48psi), running the nitrous farther into first gear. On the previous run we had insane knock sensor timing retard from converter to finish line, to which I attributed to mechanical noise (hindsight: piston/rod/pin noise?).

On the dyno earlier this spring we had a nice fat 10.5-11:1 AFR with colder AIT at 46psi of boost when it did 788whp. I had just bumped the fuel pressure from 50 to 55psi on the dyno and we had plenty of fuel. Now on the track...we are running high 12's to 13:2 AFR with the same tune, only slightly more boost, and way hotter AIT...likely worse air density overall. So something changed, Im still not convinced that another 2150cc injector on #1 didn't start to jam up and f*** us. We had an injector jammed up a couple weeks ago, but found it when the car wouldn't start....typical "send it back to FIC, they clean it and say "it's all good now". This has got to be the 5th time we've had an injector issue. This is where my fears lay, especially since we are running them static open the entire run anyway..we're maxed.



so now we are contemplating another big round of changes: AEM EMS to facilitate control of staged injectors...maybe 1000cc and 1650cc staged. Adding the 4EGT, fuel pressure, and exhaust pressure sensors to log. We are batting around the idea of a front mounted fuel cell and a cam driven mechanical fuel pump to insure we have fuel supply for 8's. Nelson is speccing out the next motor which is looking to be solid hard block with orings (they held up awesome this time..no HG issues). We want to have fuel/motor/ecu systems capable of pushing 160mph and 8's from this portly pig! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif


We have a lot of things to check before putting it back together, but seeing it went 150mph on a 119 1/8 and the last run was 122 at the 1/8 even with a piss poor 60'.....we certainly have the mph/power to go 8.xxx now...we just have to make the stars line up.

spray it a little more and longer through first gear. hold the car back on the converter a little bit longer and leave with more boost (maybe need 15-17psi on the gt42 since it ramps up slower, where the fp37r left awesome with only 12psi...leaving at 15psi would cook tire when it came up!) If we can put even a 1.4 60' together with 153-154mph I think we have easy....that's an 8 right there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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matt92vr4

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Nice carnage! What brand rod was that?

I know how many resources it takes to keep a car in the 9's and pushing forward. I've since retired from that game. It exhausted all of my time, money, emotions, and thoughts. Thanks for continuing on, there are those of us who do appreciate your time. Your 60's with the auto should be killer. We used to pull 1.3's on occasion and considered 1.5's weak with the auto. How are you staging? What's your technique for building boost on the line? Any vids of the launch? I'd love to look at them.

I loved the auto, but this was back in 2006 and we kept snapping the shaft, so we gave up on it at the time and went manual. I always regretted ditching the auto. Anyway, congrats on the car. That is killer carnage! 8's are coming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Gizmovr4

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Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
366
Location
andover,NJ

Thank you for the kind words guys. Perhaps I will make a coffee table out of this block /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

The car has been in the 1.3x 60ft area - some of the videos can be found here :

click
 
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biglady112

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Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
1,255
Location
Commerce City, Co
I run 10 injectors, a mechanical fuel pump and 4 egt's on dsmlink. Please stay with the program if you can. Sorry about the carnage but, love watching you guys kick ass with the tank.
 

89Patches

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Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
723
Location
Ontario Canada
Quoting Gizmovr4:

Thank you for the kind words guys. Perhaps I will make a coffee table out of this block /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif



I you don't I'll buy it from you! It would go good with my carnage collection in my shop /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

curtis

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Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Hate to hear about engine failures especially this close to the goal. I have to ask....tapered wall pins or full size across the id???
 

ApexHunter

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Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
1,992
Location
Marysville, WA
Ditto, thanks for sharing the pics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Glad car/driver were largely OK.
 

holeshotmoe

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Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
1,291
Location
MD
Quoting transparentdsm:
for real, keep it, if not ill pay to have it shipped to me and turn it into a table


...and a glass top. Definitely a 4g63 museum quality piece /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Makes me wonder if a scatter shield behind the block would be out of order
 

matt92vr4

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Are you using anything special to hold the breaks? How much boost and rpm do you get before they let loose?
 

GSTwithPSI

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Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,460
Location
SoCal
I've always admired your car, Nelson. It's disappointing to hear this happened, and the damage is astounding. It really goes to show what kind of energy is harnessed by all the internal engine components. I've never seen anything like that. I'm just glad everyone was ok, and the car held together long enough to get down the rest of the track safely.

I'm sure you'll have the car back up and running even faster before you know it. I'm looking forward to see what you do with the new build!
 

GSX_TC

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Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
Wow also the worst damage I've ever seen, glad you are ok though. What is the next build consisting of?
 
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