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dyno tuning with 1051

turbowop

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Apr 29, 2001
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Yakima, WA
Drove the 180 miles to English Racing today for a dyno tune on ECMlink for pump and pump/meth. So on the way to English, the car seemed to be running hot when I got held up in some road construction. I just replaced an OE 190 thermostat that was stuck open with a brand new OE 190. I think this one doesn't like to open correctly because if the car sits in traffic it jumps up to like 213-216. Never had an issue like this before. Anyway, I made it there without any other issues.

On the dyno, we realized something was up with the meth system wiring. Anybody that has seen my methanol wiring thread in the tech section may be able to follow along with this. The 10psi Hobbs switch was activating the secondary fuel maps for some reason. All this ground switch crap really messed things up. The wiring was sound, but somehow the ECU input would see ground with that Hobbs switch and the 60psi Hobbs would flow ground through it without seeing 60psi. We think it was pulling ground through the 2-stage MBC or the meth "on" led. So I had to hack up all my nice wiring to fix it. Ended up having to wire in a second relay so everything is switched on by 12v, but the second relay reverses the polarity right before it goes to the ECU so that it see a ground to switch maps. What a complicated mess.

Finally fixed, Lucas started making some pulls. Remember, my car still has a stock 7.8:1 bottom end with 140k miles on it. I think it's getting tired. Other mods can be seen in the link in my sig if anybody doesn't know what the car has in it.

Pump gas 23psi did 357whp and pump/meth at 27ish psi did 424whp. Any more substantial boost or timing and the car would knock, so we left it there for safety. On the street, the power with pump/meth comes on nice and smooth.

I expected more power, but I guess I should be more realistic about my goals unless I plan to build something fresh with higher compression. Everything else is there, so I can't think of anything else that would change it. It was running a tad hot during some of the pulls and Lucas thinks swapping out that thermostat will actually help make a few more ponies. I'll probably replace it this weekend and clean up my wiring that I had to fix. Other than that, I'm just going to enjoy the car again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This dyno graph shows pump gas run in red and pump/meth in blue:




 

Terry Posten

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Dec 16, 2003
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Davenport, Iowa USA
Your numbers are almost identical to mine on pump (hp). I made 361awhp at 20psi. And before I fixed my "hot" issue, I would get knock at about 210 as well. So to fix my hot issue, I removed the Scrocco rad, and the 180 stat for a full sized rad and a 160 stat. I set up the two new fans with a 160 deg switch and now I never see anything over 185 (sitting in traffic on 90 deg days) and the knock is gone all the way to 7000 revs at 20 psi on pump.

My bottleneck is the stockish intake manifold. I was told I would gain 30+ awhp at 7000 (20psi) if I had a Forester but I would lose some bottom end. I drive on the street so I am keeping the stockish mani.

My car at 20psi pump gas is rock solid for drivability. Idle is awesome, never stalls, never misses, never falls on its face due to knock. Just very fun and predictable.

Have fun with a smooth driving car.
 
Last edited:

Terry Posten

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Dec 16, 2003
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After putting my graph next to yours, you and really see what a 2.3L has over the 2.0L in torque figures. I hit a max of 335 at 5K and your max torque is 280 at 6.5k. But I have to stop revving at 7k where you can pull almost to 8k.


Good stuff.


My chart
click

Wop's chart
click
 

citymunky

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Sep 22, 2010
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Chesapeake, VA
Over 60Hp just for spraying water/meth. Nice.
 

Barnes

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Feb 9, 2003
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Richland, WA
Quoting turbowop:
Other than that, I'm just going to enjoy the car again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Most important thing right here.
 

GSTwithPSI

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A 60 Hp gain for adding a little washer fluid to the mix should make you smile alone. 424 at the wheels on pump gas is a pretty good number considering your still on a completely safe tune. Good stuff.

So, I have looked over the wiring diagram a million times over and just can't figure out how it wasn't good to go? Just so I understand right, the meth system would activate as soon as the 10PSI Hobbs switch would see 10PSI? I can't understand how the system wouldn't be active all the time if it was going to ground somewhere after the 60PSI Hobbs switch. Unless the physical wiring somehow deviates from the diagram you drew, I can't see any possible way to ground but through the 60PSI switch. If there was a way to ground without the switch activated, the system should be on all the time? I'm not at all trying to say it wasn't in fact coming on when it wasn't supposed to, I just can understand how. I hate electronics. Could you post up a new diagram in your other thread with the new relay wired in so I can see what you did? Thanks.
 

iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
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Michigan
Quoting Terry Posten:
I set up the two new fans with a 160 deg switch and now I never see anything over 185 (sitting in traffic on 90 deg days) and the knock is gone all the way to 7000 revs at 20 psi on pump.




Not criticizing here, but that is possibly too cool for optimal efficiency. I understand why you did what you did to avoid the knock, but 210 is not a bad operating temp (understanding you are nowhere near actually boiling anything with a pressurized and 50/50 mix system). 185 is cooler than these cars are designed to run.

I am no tuning expert, so I have no alternative approach advice to offer. Maybe you are ok since you only drive in summer with the car, and not often/daily either.

Were you hp/torque numbers with the previous rad setup or current?
 

turbowop

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Quoting GSTwithPSI:
A 60 Hp gain for adding a little washer fluid to the mix should make you smile alone. 424 at the wheels on pump gas is a pretty good number considering your still on a completely safe tune. Good stuff.

So, I have looked over the wiring diagram a million times over and just can't figure out how it wasn't good to go? Just so I understand right, the meth system would activate as soon as the 10PSI Hobbs switch would see 10PSI? I can't understand how the system wouldn't be active all the time if it was going to ground somewhere after the 60PSI Hobbs switch. Unless the physical wiring somehow deviates from the diagram you drew, I can't see any possible way to ground but through the 60PSI switch. If there was a way to ground without the switch activated, the system should be on all the time? I'm not at all trying to say it wasn't in fact coming on when it wasn't supposed to, I just can understand how. I hate electronics. Could you post up a new diagram in your other thread with the new relay wired in so I can see what you did? Thanks.



We couldn't figure it out either. I went over the wiring in the car like five times before we gave up and decided to try something else. The wiring did not deviate from my diagram whatsoever. Me, Lucas, and BrianAWD were all there trying to wrap our heads around it. Everytime Lucas tried to make a pumpgas pull that input switch would trip and switch to the other map. We tried cutting the ground off both the MBC and then the LED and still it would see ground. We even tried a new Hobbs switch. I'll post up the new diagram in the other thread and add it here if necessary. I'm just glad I got it working while I was there.

I'm using 100% methanol and not just washer fluid, BTW. I can't tell if you were being sarcastic because meth is used in washer fluid or if you thought that's what I was actually using. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Last edited:

turbowop

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Yakima, WA
Quoting iceman69510:
Quoting Terry Posten:
I set up the two new fans with a 160 deg switch and now I never see anything over 185 (sitting in traffic on 90 deg days) and the knock is gone all the way to 7000 revs at 20 psi on pump.




Not criticizing here, but that is possibly too cool for optimal efficiency. I understand why you did what you did to avoid the knock, but 210 is not a bad operating temp (understanding you are nowhere near actually boiling anything with a pressurized and 50/50 mix system). 185 is cooler than these cars are designed to run.

I am no tuning expert, so I have no alternative approach advice to offer. Maybe you are ok since you only drive in summer with the car, and not often/daily either.

Were you hp/torque numbers with the previous rad setup or current?



I agree with keeping the coolant temps too low. I'm going to throw in this new 180 thermostat I have and see what it does. I may just pick up a new OE 190 if it keeps temps too low. Without any other changes, the car went from running 194-203 while cruising or stop/go during the summer heat to running 203-216 during spring temps just by swapping out a recently stuck open thermostat with a new one. I think the new one is garbage.
 

JNR

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^^^Did you make sure to get all the air out of the system? That could cause hotter temps...just saying before thinking the new thermostat may not be working properly.

where do you get your methanol? I saw some concentrate washer fluid that had a really high amount in it, but forgot the brand; most of that summer blend hardly has anything in it, fwiw (if people are wanting to run it) and you have to find the stuff that goes down to like 0 degrees (high % of methanol), although it does get $$...just curious where to buy the pure stuff and about how much it costs...Will be hooking up the water injection and tossing around the idea of running methanol or blend, although still a little nervous about putting a flammable mix in the IC tract (if it backfired).

Yeah, that extra boost really added some power and good you're able to run it safely with the meth.
 

turbowop

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Well when I replaced the thermostat, I only drained enough coolant to get the level below the thermostat housing, which I don't think is enough to introduce a large air bubble into the system. The car was also on jackstands in the front, which I find helps keeping air from getting trapped in the system as well. I've drained coolant out of this thing many many times and never had an issue like this.

I get methanol from the same place I used to buy racegas. It comes in 5-gallon pails for like $30 or more.
 

JNR

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that's not too bad ($) and imagine it lasts for awhile.

Yeah, I've done thermostats and other coolant work before without issues and only reason I bring it up is a few guys were having issues with hot running engines right after a thermostat change, even though the unit was a lower temp. After bleeding out the air (especially letting it run thru the heater core) and driving it for quite awhile, they had it running normal. These were nissans though and from what I was reading, they are notorious for being a PITA to bleed for some reason, although don't know if all of them are, or just certain engines.
 

Nartanian

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No video(s)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Nice numbers by the way.
 

Terry Posten

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Davenport, Iowa USA
I was over heating way past 210 with the small rad setup before. We could only do 12psi pulls for basic drivability tuning until I swapped everything to the larger setup.

I never drive my car if it is below 50 deg outside, never in the rain or heaven forbid, snow. The only time it sees rain is if I get stuck in a shower on the way to MOD and back.

Yes it is too cold for anything less than nice days, and I have thought about going to the 170 stat I have the next time I crack open the system. My fan temp switch is adjustable and I can turn it up one click to 170. I also have a 180 stat and just hate coolant so I have not attempted/tested those setups.

To be honest, earlier this Spring I did take 425 to work and it was below 50 in the morning, it really did not like running until it was at 160 so I just babyed it for the morning commute.

The ECMLink has been programmed to run the best at 180 which was what it was on the dyno. The value for the coolant has also been compensated for the colder temps. In stop and go traffic the gauge goes between 175 to 185 depending on if I am sitting still or crusing. On long highway runs, just crusing at 70ish, it is around the 165 mark.
 

Noobsauce

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Beaverton, Oregon
Nice numbers!!! When I swap everything over from the talon and work out any bugs that may arise. methanol kit will be the next step:)
 

turbowop

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Yakima, WA
Quoting Nartanian:
No video(s)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Nice numbers by the way.



I meant to bring my Flip video camera, but forgot it home. Oh well. It was neato seeing the O2 dump shoot flames. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I just swapped in a 180 thermostat. Runs cooler now around town. Did a pull through third and it felt great. Temp at the time of the pull was 190. It then dropped back down to 186 or so. Did another pull at 190. It stayed around that temp for awhile. Then in traffic through town the temp creeped up a bit. By the time I got home it was 206 and idling in the garage it crept up to 213 and stayed there for several minutes while running. I shut it down at that point. No coolant was pushed into the overflow bottle either. My slim fan was running the whole time. AC fan never kicked on. I wish there was a way to program the temps at which the fans come on through ECMlink. It would be nice if that AC pusher fan would come on earlier. Come to think of it, I can't remember the temp at which that fan turns on without turning on the AC.

At this point, I think I need to do a full coolant flush anyway. The stuff I drained to swap thermostats was green, but in the sunlight you could see a rust-colored hue about it. Over the years, I've put in a lot of non-distilled water when in a rush to get the car going for races, etc. And it sat in the garage a lot over the past two summers since I was busy with other stuff, which probably contributed to that.
 

GSTwithPSI

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Quoting turbowop:
I'm using 100% methanol and not just washer fluid, BTW. I can't tell if you were being sarcastic because meth is used in washer fluid or if you thought that's what I was actually using. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Yeah I thought that's what your were actually using. I didn't know your were running straight meth. I always thought it was more beneficial to have the H2O present for the inter-cooling effect with a 50/50 meth/water mix. I'm sure you get much more power off the straight methanol setup though. I wonder what the power difference would be between the two? I'd definitely like to see the new wiring diagram with the additions you made.
 

GSX_TC

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Nice numbers mark. Bet it felt nice.
 
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