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6bolt Crankwalk on a completely stock car. 167k miles

The VR4 I picked up a while ago has always had a weird clutch engagement issue that kept feeling like it needed to be bled. Then I started noticing it happened more when I made left turns so that got me a little more curious. Started pulling things apart today because I was pulling the trans anyways and got a good chance to inspect the crank play.

Ill try and get a better measurement with a caliper in a bit, but its looks to be at least 1/8" play. Since this is a completely stock car other than the clutch that's in it, I'm gonna pull the oil pan and inspect the bearings to see if there's any gouging on the crank or if the main has spun. If not, Ill may end up just replacing the bearings and crossing my fingers.

Oh, and when I say stock I mean it. All stock piping, exhaust, emissions, etc. Its just like an older car that someone drove for 20 years then finally upgraded.
 

My old 6-bolt walked.

Not too common, but it does happen.

Lesson learned.

Be it Stock, or whatever the previous retard owner did, check everything out before you start driving these things on the daily.
 

fuel

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,165
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
Quoting DallasJ:
The VR4 I picked up a while ago has always had a weird clutch engagement issue that kept feeling like it needed to be bled. Then I started noticing it happened more when I made left turns so that got me a little more curious. Started pulling things apart today because I was pulling the trans anyways and got a good chance to inspect the crank play.

Ill try and get a better measurement with a caliper in a bit, but its looks to be at least 1/8" play. Since this is a completely stock car other than the clutch that's in it, I'm gonna pull the oil pan and inspect the bearings to see if there's any gouging on the crank or if the main has spun. If not, Ill may end up just replacing the bearings and crossing my fingers.

Oh, and when I say stock I mean it. All stock piping, exhaust, emissions, etc. Its just like an older car that someone drove for 20 years then finally upgraded.



You say it's stock other than the clutch which is in it - but what clutch does it have exactly?

I'm thinking maybe it has something to do with the USDM models having a clutch engagement starter cut out switch - surely all those times it's been started with clutch disengagement force without high pressure oil lubrication takes its toll on the thrust bearing.
 

Terry Posten

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Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
Exactly...

First thing I did was unplug the clutch switch so I could start in neutral when I removed the stock clutch and went aftermarket.
 

IncorpoRatedX

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Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
5,593
Location
Arizona
I do that immediately upon owning one. stock clutch or otherwise. I'd prefer not to risk it and it makes logical sense that pressure on that thrust bearing while oil is not being pumped in, could cause damage. Even if it's fine, id rather not risk it.
 

dammitjim

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Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
312
Location
WI
Quoting Terry Posten:
First thing I did was unplug the clutch switch so I could start in neutral when I removed the stock clutch and went aftermarket.



On this car do you just unplug the switch or do you have to jump the wires?
 

Terry Posten

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Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
There are two plugs on the pedal.

One that is depressed when it is not being touched and one that gets pressed in when you put the pedal to the floor.

Just unplug the harness from the one that gets pressed in when the pedal is on the floor.

That's it...
 

I disengaged the clutch start switch basically as soon as I got it. I have a built 7-bolt 2.4l talon also so Im definitely not new to the thrust wear worries.

The clutch in it is some cheap 3 puck (big pucks) unsprung no-name clutch. I cant find any kind of brand to it but the pressure plate is silver. Pedal pressure is pretty low though, Id venture to guess its around a 2300-2500lb pressure plate.

I measured the end play, and while I did over estimate it, its beyond gone. I measured 0.080". I'm gonna clean up now and Ill post up some revealing pictures in a few hours. Basically the crank is toast and has quite a bit of wear into it. Though, that doesn't necessarily mean I cant use the block.
 

beaner

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Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
1,562
Location
b'ham, mi
I don't think using that block again is worth it. Just get another shortblock for a couple bucks and move on.
 

GreenGSX

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Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
681
Location
Rochester, New York
Before you go and do a ton of work and spend a lot of money why don't you just put some new bearings in it? For $90 you could get another a lot more life out of it. It only takes an hour or so to drop the pan and the main bearing caps. Then just use a small screw driver to spin the top half of the bearings out and spin in the new ones. The way I look at it if you think its junk already you don't have a lot to loose by giving it try.
 

Things are looking pretty rough here. Check out the rough edge on the actual bearing. That's from the crank casting area rubbing. The crank is so worn, the bearing surface is now sub-surface from the casting.

Picture059Medium.jpg

Picture065Medium.jpg
 

Quoting GreenGSX:
Before you go and do a ton of work and spend a lot of money why don't you just put some new bearings in it? For $90 you could get another a lot more life out of it. It only takes an hour or so to drop the pan and the main bearing caps. Then just use a small screw driver to spin the top half of the bearings out and spin in the new ones. The way I look at it if you think its junk already you don't have a lot to loose by giving it try.



Thats what I planned on doing until I saw the crank. Right now the motor is about 80% ready to yank.
 

pauleyman

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Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
Check the clutch hydraulic. If it isn't self adjusting something is wrong. Please tell me it doesn't have an extended clutch slave rod.
 

Diego

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Dec 9, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
I have an extended rod, I know its "not right" but it fixed my problem that I was having.

Extended rods are not the devil, if set right.
 

pauleyman

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Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
Here is where I was going with this. What does an extended clutch slave rod do? A slave is merely a tube with a piston in it. Nothing more. The piston can be moved at will provided the clutch master is working correctly. It is this very design that allows us to drive the cars and not have to adjust the pedal all the time. It's self adjusting. As the clutch wears obviously the fork changes orientation for the range of motion it must operate. If the hydraulics were not allowed to do this we would see differences in clutch engagement height at the pedal as the clutch wears. This can happen because the master is merely a tube and piston also BUT with a valve inside which is closed when the piston goes past a certain point. So why does an extended master seem to "work"? Well the piston can only go back so far until it bottoms out in the bore. At that point if the rod is still too long to move freely between the piston and the fork guess what, the clutch is being actuated to some degree. This would be no different than the term "riding the clutch" where some people like to rest their foot on the clutch pedal as they drive. As you can imagine this could be hard on the thrust bearing. One other situation can arise in the hydraulics that can cause issues. Sometimes its possible that the master is over adjusted to the point the valve is closed all the time. This can preload the clutch also and would get worse as the clutch wears. People with faulty masters or masters adjusted like this complain their engagement point keeps changing. Simple test. Push the slave back in it's bore by hand. Should push easily. If it doesn't something is wrong or you're running an extended rod and it's already bottomed out. Hope this helps this thread. Extended rods do not solve the problem. So...were the hydraulics operating as they should or not?
 

Clutch is adjusted properly (I know all about the bleed valve in the master cylinder). No extended slave rod, and I can push in the slave by hand. Ive had 2gs for a long time so Ive dealt with the pedal pump and improperly adjusted clutches plenty.

The clutch thats in it the car was put in by the previous owner trying to fix an issue which Im guessing was partly caused by the crankwalk and partly by the pedal assembly worn out. The story with the car is it was driven about 164k miles by the original owner, sold to another guy, and less than 1000miles were put on it while he had it. He did the clutch and all the other hydraulic parts trying to fix it. He probably found the CW and off loaded the car for cheap.
 

pauleyman

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Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
1000 possible causes I suppose. You are probably right. Maybe the old guy rode the clutch. Only think you can do without knowing the root cause is make sure there are no known causes present upon reassembly.
 

Yeah, not 100% sure which route I'm gonna take yet. I could get the whole JDM motor and trans set or just buy a 6bolt crank and bearings to throw in. Either way I'm gonna yank the motor to look through it and see what else is worn out at this age.
 

Giving it more thought and talking to a few people, Im gonna go the JDM import route. Everything in my car has 170k miles on it, so would be good to have a newer trans, xfer, engine, head, oil pump, water pump, yadda yadda,. The car would last another 10-15 years like that with the mileage I put on it.
 
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