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Would you trust these welds?


BrandonEchols
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005659 posted 07/15/11 08:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I got my Bilsteins back from the shop...Maybe it's just me, but compared to the ones Garfield does, and the other photos, these look a little underwhelming to me
What say the collective?









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Edited by BrandonEchols (07/15/11 08:20 PM)

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005680 posted 07/15/11 10:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The tabs should have been wrapped around and not cut off. What scares me more is that the paint wasn't stripped before welding. This contaminates the weld. They used a scotch brite pad on a 90 degree die grinder to clean off the shit welds after they buggered them up. The bushings should have had the paint blasted off with sand or glass beads. as well as the tabs then tacked in the top near the tube then on the sides then the tabs hammered down then welded allowed to cool etc and the finished off by welding the holes up. another good idea was to weld them on straight. They look kind of skewed a bit.

I'd say ship them down here and I could doctor them up but shipping is going to be pricey I'm sure. Just get some 1 inch wide 1/8 inch flat bar and wrap the end and weld to the tabs as well as the bushing but first strip off all the old paint dirt trash crap etc and also try and have them tacked in the top on both sides of the bushing



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spooling92vr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005682 posted 07/15/11 10:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
in a word HELLLZ NO! id give you 500 miles before they broke, the guy didnt even grind the paint before he welded..



92 vr4 belize green # 829/1000....NOW RUNS! still needs tuning

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GSNT
Deer Slayer


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005686 posted 07/15/11 10:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It may not be pretty, but it is not going to break. All the forces applied are pushing the bushing into the shock body. Only when you take it off sweet jumps are they going to try to briefly pull away from each other.

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H05TYL
Hover/Stand/Bend


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005687 posted 07/15/11 11:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not convinced you could weld them properly without destroying the rubber bushes.

When we did mine we removed the bushes (ended up throwing them away and finding some nolathane ones to fit instead)

Here's a pic minus the bushes.


This is obviously the lower mount from a coilover with the shock itself removed - wouldn't be keen to try welding near a pressurised shock.

Here's a comparison with the stock shock (fully compressed and missing it's lower bush).
These are Evo 5 coilovers with about 3" removed from the lower mount.

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005695 posted 07/15/11 11:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've never replaced the bushings and done probably 10 or 15 sets. But I'm using a tig and going super slow letting them cool
Here's the last set I did. Already started on Paul's in the shop and probably going to finish those next week. But I'm doing his stealth mode so the Nazi's in Hong Kong think there stock.




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"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005698 posted 07/16/11 12:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They don't look pretty but I don't think you will have any issues. It looks like there is still decent penetration.



-Jeff
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Lightning1
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005699 posted 07/16/11 12:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I am not sure there is decent penetration on the bushing. It looks fine on the shock, but not the bushing, you can see the small contamination bubbles in the tops of the welds which kill and hope of penetration to the non cleaned metal. I would definatly get them redone.



3 galants in driveway, none on the street, what the hell am I doing wrong here?

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Barnes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005701 posted 07/16/11 12:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSNT:

It may not be pretty, but it is not going to break. All the forces applied are pushing the bushing into the shock body. Only when you take it off sweet jumps are they going to try to briefly pull away from each other.




I'm in this camp. They are easy to inspect. I wouldn't worry too much about it.



-Jon Barnes
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beaner
Blew1 Guy Today


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005706 posted 07/16/11 01:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They will probably be fine, but it seems rather obvious to bend the metal over and get the most welding possible. Not sure why you did it like that.

Quoting H05TYL:

(ended up throwing them away and finding some nolathane ones to fit instead)



Any more info on this? I was trying to install my evo setup and everything was fine until popping off the rear shocks. The rubber ripped out of the metal sleeve, basically stopping that project...for now. :/

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14u2nV
Resident Pedobear


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005708 posted 07/16/11 01:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm no expert, but I"m betting on the welds outlasting the shocks. You don't have a whole lot of side/side, front/back motion, just up and down. The pressure will be going against the shock, not the welds, unless as mentioned, you take it off some sweet jumps.



~Kenneth Brian
"Censorship offends me" ~Author Unknown


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Galantvr41062
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005714 posted 07/16/11 03:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It is done with a mig welder, I would guess the machine was setup ok, most of the heat went into the new shock body, I would guess to save the bushing. I see where the paint was removed around the weld area, and there is no contamination or porocity in the weld.

I will put money on the weld holds out longer then the shock, as long as you re paint were the paint is removed.

~John



Moon taxi: [email protected] mph 41psi 2011, 2012 1.5 60', then bust.. 2015 no, 2016 will be the year, maybe.

91 Gvr4 #597: sold


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rdomeck
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005736 posted 07/16/11 09:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I run a fabrication shop and I weld a lot of equipment used in the zip line industry....My welds have to count because if they fail someone dies! Although these welds are not pretty, they look like they would hold just fine. I would agree they will outlast the shock and the rubber bushing that has now been hot and will more than likely fail.



EVO III 16G, manifold and O2 housing, 3" exhaust, Evo 9 IC, 3" GM MAF, GM IAT, GM MAP, LC1 wideband, V3 Full, RC 750's, Aeromotive 340 fuel pump, Adj. FPR. Stock internals. Baer front brakes, Evo 9 Ohlin's.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005738 posted 07/16/11 09:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thank you...



-Jeff
1881/2000
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toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005745 posted 07/16/11 11:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't consider myself an expert on this (or any other topic) but I do have a bit of experience breaking shit, (especially shit that I made/modified.)

The cyclical nature of the loading of this joint and the very nature of what a failure would cause would have me approaching this task differently.

I would strive to encapsulate the bushing, and at first glance, that would not be so hard to do

Take a piece of tubing in the approximately correct i.d., slice it in half to give yourself a "u" shaped piece.

Work that over a socket to get the correct arc to match the bushing

Drill some holes thru this piece and the shock body stick outs (for rossette's)

Bevel the edge of this piece and the shock body stickouts

Insert the bushing, and clamp the whole shitaree together using a long metal furniture clamp.

Heli arc (that's tig to you young'uns) the joint a little at a time, using an appropriate filler rod and a lot of patience.

You would get "some" penetration into the bushing shell, but the main idea is to surround the shell with the u shaped piece to cradle it.

Then, I would make an exterior strap in the correct arc to wrap the whole diameter of the workpiece, drill some holes to match what I drilled in the other pieces, and then I would rossette weld thru the holes to positively retain the bushing.

Done deal, with minimal heat put into the bushing, and maximium fatigue resistance.

... last the life of the car and then some!



With a little more work, one could also weld the u on without the bushing in place, then clean the weld penetration/irregualrity from the inside with a carbide.

broach the thing round again ( an impact socket a couple of thou undersize makes a good broach)

Hone to the final size, give the thing a couple of thou (not much, 2 or 3 thou) pressfit, and press the silly thing in.

then strap it, rossette weld thru the strap all the way thru the workpiece and down to the bushing shell to positively retain the thing ... and it's fawkin done

... can;t help but think there is an off the shelf urethane bushing that could be used in this application ...

Quoting H05TYL:



When we did mine we removed the bushes (ended up throwing them away and finding some nolathane ones to fit instead)






^^^ I like the way this guy thinks!

Got a part number for the bushing you used?

Fabbing this up and then installing the bushing would make things a lot easier/cleaner/quicker to fabricate.



Brandon,

The fact that the stickouts don;t wrap around the shell at all does give me just a scosche of concern. Probably be okay, but I hate having even the tiniest worry when I'm flying down a dirt road at speed.

If you;re concerned about the set-up you have, just make a strap to wrap what's there, and rossette weld thru it in a few spots and attach it well to the stickouts.

It'll work just fine.

Be sure to tighten the lower bolt with the car resting on it's wheels!

That joint will wind up some as the suspension moves, and if you tighten it at full droop, it will pre-stress the bushing, leading to a shorter service life.



the bitterness of low quality remains long after the temporary joy of a low price has faded

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H05TYL
Hover/Stand/Bend


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005820 posted 07/16/11 08:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Beaner:


Quoting H05TYL:

(ended up throwing them away and finding some nolathane ones to fit instead)



Any more info on this? I was trying to install my evo setup and everything was fine until popping off the rear shocks. The rubber ripped out of the metal sleeve, basically stopping that project...for now. :/




I got a mate works an an auto parts store to measure them up then search through the listings until he found some the right size...
link
part no 47198
(dimensions are in that link too)

They're actually for the leaf springs of ford/mazda vans



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toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
it's peace of mind at 100 mph plus
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005824 posted 07/16/11 08:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I got a mate works an an auto parts store to measure them up then search through the listings until he found some the right size...
link
part no 47198
(dimensions are in that link too)

They're actually for the leaf springs of ford/mazda vans




thanks for that information!

That will allow folks to do a much better job of this!



the bitterness of low quality remains long after the temporary joy of a low price has faded

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005943 posted 07/17/11 12:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Now this noltec thing might work but remember the bushing inside is all stepped and two different sizes with a taper.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
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"Put the dawg to work.
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toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
it's peace of mind at 100 mph plus
1990/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005954 posted 07/17/11 02:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^ good point ...

Nothing worth doing is easy



At any rate, for someone who has access to a lathe, it should be graavy to turn a tapered spacer.

I won;t be back in the machine shop for quite some time, but, if you can get a buncha people on board, I can ask one of my buddies to punch out a run.

[edit]
'spose one could burn/remove the spacer from the stock bushing and re-use it



the bitterness of low quality remains long after the temporary joy of a low price has faded


Edited by toybreaker (07/17/11 02:31 PM)

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005958 posted 07/17/11 02:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think I have a single pin out in the shop....have to look for it but I can get all the measurements to you.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
Greenhouse Effect Green
Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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toybreaker Galant VR4.org Moderator
it's peace of mind at 100 mph plus
1990/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005961 posted 07/17/11 02:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^ that works

I scrapped everything that wasn;t bolted down awhile back, so I ain;t got shit laying around.

[edit]

Please set your fisher price calipers to 'merican measurements, The antiques I got's access to are in real numbers, not dat 'metrik chit


Edited by toybreaker (07/17/11 02:41 PM)

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Brunoboy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005971 posted 07/17/11 03:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
mine were cut as well, but only to the circle on the stock evo shock, then welded around the ends. IIRC the welds on mine look very similiar to the ones on yours. 5k miles, hard driving. still going.
-Shane



556/1000 KG 8/10/13 .... Sold
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92 Eclipse Gsx R.I.P
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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005988 posted 07/17/11 04:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting toybreaker:

^^^ that works

I scrapped everything that wasn;t bolted down awhile back, so I ain;t got shit laying around.

[edit]

Please set your fisher price calipers to 'merican measurements, The antiques I got's access to are in real numbers, not dat 'metrik chit




Its a Japanese car and has metric hardware so your just going to have to deal.


Now to let everyone in on the joke. My mill does everything in metrics. Its a German/Austrian mill with a software board installed from the UK it no specken the english numbers. I set my autocad to metric as well. TB has always given me shit and when him and Chris came down I found every steel rule I have and just laid them around the shop. Even had my 1000mm steel starrett laid out on display.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
Greenhouse Effect Green
Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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galantgti
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1005991 posted 07/17/11 05:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've done some welding over the years as a proffesional car mechanic, but these do deff. not deserve a prize. That said; i'm pretty sure you could trust them though. The way they were welded is quite stupid, and would really like to know what that guy was thinking, but i don't think anything would happen to the welds. Unless you're planning on doing some serious off-roading and jumping "dukes of hazzard" style.....

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Galantvr41062
Epic Build
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1006062 posted 07/17/11 11:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
K sport coil overs have a straight hole threw the bushing, and bolting them on flares the one side out to match the lower control arm.

~John



Moon taxi: [email protected] mph 41psi 2011, 2012 1.5 60', then bust.. 2015 no, 2016 will be the year, maybe.

91 Gvr4 #597: sold


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