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Race ABS.

vr4play

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Feb 7, 2008
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397
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Has anyone tried upgrading our ABS? Some of the lots we Auto-X on require ABS. I have very aggressive brake pads and think I could benefit from ABS but the stock ABS sucks. I was thinking of trying to fit evo ABS cause that seems like it would be the easiest route. Also Ford and BMW offer race ABS standalone systems for grand-am cars which may work better but are far more pricey.
 

belize1334

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Nov 18, 2003
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Bozeman, MT
Lots requiring abs? That would eliminate a SIGNIFICANT number of stock classes for cars that were never equipped...
 

vr4play

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Feb 7, 2008
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Well to be competitive against a car with abs on a lot that is broken up and gravely one would like to use abs. There aren't many stock cars that have the speed or acceleration my car has. I am running in x-prepared which is a class for people with really fast cars. I feel that a good abs system could be an advantage, or at least save me from flat spotting tires. I am really fast without abs and most of the time on a smooth surface everything is fine but the lot we use the most is old and breaking up and one run you can use the brakes hard without problem but the next run there is loose stones or gravel in the line that cause tire lockup and with abs it would be more predictable. Me and my friend who runs xp in a FD RX7 with a LS1 making 487hp @ the rear tire switched cars and the abs helps quite a bit. He almost wrecked my car because he got on the brakes in some gravel and the tires locked up and he missed the corner and slid almost into a fence. I have driven a bunch of evo's with abs and there system beats ours hands down. I feel if the technology is there then use it. On a dry road a driver can out brake abs, but on a slick surface abs wins hands down. A customer of ours has a 67 mustang road race car and he just installed a system from ford that they run on the grand am cars and he said it is awesome. I was just wondering if any one else on here tried to do anything to get our abs to work worth a darn.
 

3rdstrikedsm

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What kind of car are we talkin about?
 

vr4play

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Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
I am trying to fit the abs off of an evo on to my Galant. The Galants use a crappy two channel abs that sucks really bad especially when you are carrying one rear tire off the ground entering into a corner. The evo's use a more modern 4 channel abs that works decent. The only part I haven't figured out is the steering angle sensor. Everything thing else would just be hooking up wires and mounting sensors. If I can't get that to work I can get a Ford motorsports racing abs system for about $2000.00 or I can get this click for about $9000. I don't think my car is worth that much and I am not made of money and better things could be bought for the money so the evo system would be much cheaper and work good enough for what I want but our cars don't have a steering angle sensor or really a place to mount one. I have found an evo abs pump/module for about $75 and could probably get the yaw sensors and harness with it for not much more. Just an Idea.
 

RayH

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Apr 9, 2001
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NJ
Would be really interested in how that works out. I thought about using an Evo IX ABS system but didn't know if it was standalone or integrated into other things like the ECU or stability control. There's also the issue of how to setup the wheel speed sensor counts on the Galant to match the Evo.
 

3rdstrikedsm

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You may wan't to look further in to the evo abs as it has some bs called ice mode that works even when abs is off or something along those lines and it causes the brakes to be much softer as we are fighting this same bs on my buddies 500whp auto x evo.
 

vr4play

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Feb 7, 2008
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Thanks for the info. That is good to know. I would have been upset to get it all done and still have a problem. I really like the race abs controllers but the price makes it not worth it.
 

Barnes

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Richland, WA
I'm very interested in this. I like the idea of having ABS, but I hate the stock ABS, especially in snow. The thing I've always wondered is how much vehicle data the computer is programed with. Like, weight, wheelbase, suspension geometry? Or is it a simple feed back system between the g-sensors and the wheel speed sensors. Thus making it so you could put it on practically any car and have it work.
 

jepherz

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KC, Missouri
Thats a very good quesiton, Barnes. I started to think a stiff suspension, wide tires and large brakes would change some numbers used in the ABS control module. However, the more I think about it, those pieces would only create more G's upon deceleration. What the ECU is most likely looking for is a very fast deceleration of one or more of the wheel sensors, and hardly anything reading on the G sensors. In that case, maybe the system is easily movable.

Maybe you can figure out what the steering wheel position sensor reads in, and set it as though the wheel is always straight? I'm thinking that would possibly result in the ABS having affect during hard, straight breaking.
 
Last edited:

RayH

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Apr 9, 2001
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I think you want to get the steering angle sensor to work if possible. All the tires will naturally spin at slightly different speeds while turning and the ABS may compensate for it when determining if there's slip. Also the ABS may try to put more braking force on the tires inside of the turn to help point the car. If the g sensor also measures cornering force it probably also factors in the steering angle sensor in determining braking force distribution between the left and right wheels.
 

jepherz

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True. It sounds like it'd be easier to retrofit that sensor (whatever it may be) though, than getting the wheel sensors to work.
 

Barnes

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Feb 9, 2003
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6,249
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Richland, WA
I wonder if you could use a rotary sensor on the steering column to give the same output as the sensor that bolts to the steering rack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif
 

vr4play

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Feb 7, 2008
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397
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
While we are talking about brakes and auto-x, does anyone else on here have a problem with wheel bearing flex causing the rotor to push the caliper pistons back in giving you a temporarily low pedal. Through hard turns my brake pedal always goes low taking away from confidence. I have all new hub bearings packed with redline wheel bearing grease and have had this problem with both of my galants that I have auto-x'd. Also, does anyone know what the output is on the galant wheel speed sensors. I have the specs for and evo but alldata doesn't list any specs for the galant.
 

vr4play

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Feb 7, 2008
Messages
397
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Well if I plan on trying this I guess I am going to have to find my 92 front wheel speed sensor rings. Nice to have one of each year. That is also probably why I have such a problem using a evo 9 rear diff with the 91 abs.
 
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