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Bosch 044 intank installation gone bad. Doesn't fit!

Scott Y

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Messages
482
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Hi.
Tried replacing a Supra TT pump with a Bosch 044, intank. It was looking great, until I tried to install the pump, and the assembly is too tall to fit in the tank.
I followed the install here at DSMtalk and mine looks nearly identical, except that my pump sits lower. The thread shows that his pump inlet is above the bottom of the stock sending unit. On mine, I had to bend the bottom L-tab to clear the pump.
Perhaps DSM sending units are longer?

Any ideas what I can do to get this thing to fit? I have to install it intank, not externally. By my measurements, the tank is 8 1/8" deep, and the Bosch inlet is about 8 1/16" from the top of the sending unit. I tried to install with the inlet sock first, I haven't tried without it. What clearance do I need from the bottom of the tank and the pump inlet? I suppose if it's too deep in the tank all it'll do is suck up gunk from the bottom of the tank, plus flow might be restricted.







 

SleepinGVR4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
2,483
Location
Danville, Pennsylvania
Well I know you can make it work. A member here has it done (1941Galant). I believe he sent his sending unit to Andre at PINA motorsport and fab something up to make it work. Maybe Hill has a pic of his sending unit.
 

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Weld a small square box on top of the sending unit top. Not hard just metal. Then that way you can install the bulkhead from the inside first and if its an inch taller your good. Also remember use a fuel safe rubber grommet or just weld a steel bulkhead fitting to it because the only sealer I know of that gas truly doesn't eat is aircraft pro seal and not cheap. If you want me to fab it up just yell and we'll talk price. I may even have the fitting in the shop. Just have to look.
 

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Oh one more thing the dsm gas tank is deeper than the VR4/GSX tank. That's the problem your having
 

Yao

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2001
Messages
810
Location
Denver, CO
Scott, I did mine by cutting the factory steel line and weld a fitting directly on to it and bolt the pump up.
 

Yao

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2001
Messages
810
Location
Denver, CO
Here is a pic!

 

Nate

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
944
Location
Worcester, Pa
Mine is in tank; I just had someone weld the bulhead fitting right to the plate that bolts to the top of the tank. Works like a champ.
 

Scott Y

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Messages
482
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
I have a solution, but first I have to solve a self-imposed problem.
By using a 90deg junction (-6 male on top, M12 on bottom) I can connect the M12 to the extension that came on the pump, and the pickup with the sock sits at nearly stock depth. Hooray!
I'll do pics when I'm at home.

Problem: I initially drilled the hole in the sending unit to accomodate a -6 fitting, and that's too large for an M12. So, I either butcher another sending unit, somehow fill the hole and redrill an appropriate sized one for the M12, or have someone weld the junction to the sending unit.

As a wise man very recently told me: "Why did you kill a GVR4 sending unit? I could have given you any of the DSM ones that I have lying around!"
To that I say: "They say you learn from the mistakes of others. My problem is that I'm always one of the others."
 

G

Staff member
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
8,896
Location
zompton
I would have a machine shop make a bushing and then have it press fit in.
 

Scott Y

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2001
Messages
482
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
Ok, the Bosch is in the car and the car is running great.
Here's my how-to. There are probably easier ways to do this, but here's my way:

1. DON'T buy a bunch of fittings. I have a shelf full of expensive unused Earls fittings, and the only 2 I needed were the M12x1.5 -> male -6an, plus a -6an 90deg. There were no M12 -> -6an 90deg fittings locally, but that would work too.
2. DO buy a bunch of dremel cutting wheels. I went through a container of them as I hacked the sending unit to bits.
3. DO if possible (verification needed as to fitment) find a DSM sending unit and butcher it instead of a GVR-4 one.

This pic is a mock-up of the final fit. Notice that the sending unit cut to bits. Notice also that the fuel level unit has been removed, I took it off while I was working the dremel. More on the level unit later.




My plan was to use the fitting that came with the pump, and seal it to the underside of the sending unit. The problem is that the sending unit is not flat underneath and i tried to grind it flat to create a sealing surface, but I didn't have the tools or the skill to do it. I decided that I'd get the fitting welded to the bottom of the sending unit instead. Fuel leaks are the last thing I want to worry about.

I had to enlarge the hole in the sending unit to allow the M12x1.5 fitting to go through. I used a die grinder and went really slowly, and got the hole to be just the right size. The top of the M12 fitting happened to be nearly flush with the top of the sending unit.






This is the amount of grinding done on the sending unit. It had to be bent backward, and the hole in the vertical surface had to be greatly enlarged, in order to accommodate the diameter of the Bosch. I had to grind the top flanges of the pump bracket nearly flat with the sending unit, in order for the pos and neg terminals of the pump to rotate without interference while tightening it on the M12 fitting.






The fitting welded in place. Clocking it was important, because when the pump is tightened to the fitting the pos and neg terminals couldn't be in the wrong spot. The top of the pump is close to the bottom of the sending unit, and if the pump is clocked wrong the terminals interfere with the sealing gasket, and the pump may not be able to be installed.






The wires I used were from Radio Shack, I used them when I installed the Supra pump years ago and the wire jackets were still in good shape and were still pliable after years of immersion in E85. I cut some new wire from the same spool I used back then, and made some nice short wires. I used a spade connector for the pos terminal because there's not room between the sending unit and the terminal to install the tightening nut. I tweaked the ends of the spade to be closer together than the diameter of the terminal nut, so that when I pushed it onto the terminal it had to expand a bit and 'snap' into place with no risk if it sliding off.




The clocking of the pump and the wires on the terminals. Of note: I ground a few mm's off of the terminals' length to give more clearance and to to allow the nuts to be removed if necessary. Without this, the nuts couldn't come off and the pos one is still difficult. I also re-routed the pos wire to go behind the pump instead of in front like it shows.




I was pretty happy with everything, and then I tried to install the fuel level sender. Because I bent the sending unit back to accomodate the pump's diameter, the fuel level sender no longer lined up with its mounting brackets. I sat down with a beer and contemplated many things, and eventually decided to grind away bits of the sender to try and make it fit. The end result is in the pics. The horizontal marker lines are the -no cut- zone, where the internal wires of the unit reside. I had to bend the low fuel unit a bit to fit, and ultimately I was able to mount the unit to its original location.






Here you can see that there's clearance between the pump, the fuel level sender, and the bracket. The final routing of the wires is there, and you can seem how much of the vertical bracket had to be ground away to clearance the pump's diameter.




I also had to bend the float arm out a bit, to overcome interference with the pump




Nearly The end result! The depth of the fuel sock is nearly identical to stock, it's probably about 2mm higher. If you weren't going to use the sock you'd have to lower the pump in the bracket to maintain the stock pickup depth. Prevously I used radiator hose between the Supra pump and the bracket to combat noise, and it survived fine for years in E85. So I cut a used upper rad hose and did the same thing for the Bosch.

The pump is harder to insert into the tank than the stock one, as the diameter of the opening is barely large enough to fit this thing. Because the pump is so close to the sending unit, there isn't much wiggle room like with a pump mounted lower on the bracket. I nearly had the pump in, but there was no way to finese it into the opening becaue the fuel lever sender empty stopper was in the way. I had no choice but to cut the stopper off, and I didn't take a pic of that. So, the lever still has the full stopper but not the low level one. After the pump was installed the gas gauge didn't work (stuck on E) and I figured that I destroyed it during grinding. After going for a drive to reward myself before pulling it all apart again the fuel gauge started working, so the sender was just stuck.





The pump assembly really barely fits through the opening and requires finesse and rotation to feed it through. With only 1 hose clamp instead of 2, and perhaps some slim silicone i/c hose instead of thick radiator hose there would be a bit more wiggle room.

I thought I had a pic, but I'll have to go take one since I can't find it. I used a M12x1.5 -> -6an fitting on top of the sending unit, and then a -6an 90deg fitting to connect to the existing -6an line on the car. Unlike a DSM, there's no clearance issue between the fittings and the cover plate in the trunk. No leaks, everything works great. With no other changes, base fuel pressure went from 37.5 to 42, so I adjusted the afpr and all is well. I've got 11.9 -> 12.3 afr's again.

The pump is noiser than the Supra unit, it's more of a growl than a whine. With the car running I can't hear it unless I'm listening for it and my car is pretty quiet. Externally you can tell there's a bigger pump, but I was always listening for it so it seemed more obvious than it probably actually is.

Also, the pump came with a check valve but I didn't install it. When the pump is turned off pressure falls pretty quickly to zero. Doesn't seem to affect anything under operation, and lots of web research indicates that it will not be an issue.

Here's a comparison of the stock,Supra, and Bosch pumps.

 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
Damn that turned out well, Scott.

If this ends up working well in the car, you might have just written your first how-to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

AWDnoobie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
112
Location
Alberta, Canada
Nice write up, quick question, how much taller is the 1g compaired to the gvr4? Looks like about 1/2 to 3/4 difference?
 

AWDnoobie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
112
Location
Alberta, Canada
Thanx for reply Scott, when I bought my vr4 I wasnt lucky enough to have a fuel sending unit. I guess ill be buying a new unit from RTMracing.com in canada.
 

AWDnoobie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
112
Location
Alberta, Canada
For me they have bin hard to find in canada, but I think I got lucky ill know in a few days now. I still might talk to the guys over at rtmracing.com, and see if they want to take a look at mine and then make a new one for the gvr4. Then, if anyone wants a new piece over thier rusty ones they have a choice.
 
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