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rebuild done, but wont start. trouble shooting?

hey just finished a top end rebuild. everything lined up great, went on smoothly, vacuum lines are all in, plugs are all in, new wires and plugs, timing was set back EXACTLY where it was. but it wont run. the starter will crank over, there is gas and a spark, but it wont even try to run. Head was torqued down to specs (68lbs) APR rebuild gear, intake and exhaust manifolds are on tight. unless the new cams i put in make the engine so out of whack it wont start, im stumped.

thanks, you guys have always came threw

Andrew
 

AnotherNewb

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How did you set your timing exactly without the engine running? By the washer marks on the CAS? Not good enough. Check your fireing order and slowly move your CAS, while cranking, to see if you can get it close enough to run so you can time it with a light. Also, try resetting your ECU by unhooking your battery if you haven't already.
 
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524of1000

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ARP headstud torque spec is 80 ft/lbs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 

Dan D

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I agree - If there's fuel and spark but it just want to stumble and bumble on start, you probably have the CAS off too far. I ran into that when starting up my rebuild for th first time. It would light up and then die. A couple tweaks to the CAS got it close enough to stay alive until I had the timing set properly.

If that doesn't work, try a compression check and make sure you've got a good cylinder seal
 

ktmrider

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Make sure the CAS is not 180 out, fairly common to have happen.
VFAQ shows how to set it properly.
 

GVR-4

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^^ +1. That makes the most sense, based on what you are describing.
 

Nate

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Double check the simple things, like make sure the right plug wire is going to the right coil. Yes, I realize it's wasted spark, but still.
 

rgeier11

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Are you absolutely sure all of the timing marks line up?

Also, it could be the coolant temp sensor.
 

checked the plugs, their in right as of 1.6L and 2.0L Chiltons manual specs, used torque specs for stock head studs (68lbs) Chiltons manual, happen to have a PDF for ARP torque specs?, I’m in the process of checking the timing now. I have my crank-shaft pulley and the oil pump pulley lined up right, but the cam gears are off by about a half inch. I pulled the timing belt tensioner pulley during the build without knowing you had to keep that tension with that special tool from Mitsubishi. So I think if I pull the pulley again and manually reset my cams it should be about right.
 

AnotherNewb

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You and put your tensioner in a vice and use a small drill bit or allen wrench to compress your tensioner, if you don't have the tool. You want to torque your studs to ARP's specs. If memory serves me right, the studs are torqued to something like 60% of their stretch. Being as how they are not OEM the materials are different and do not stretch the same. You can probably get away with starting the car up as is, (with the timing marks lined up of course) Just be sure to retorque the head after a couple heat cycles. I always retorque my head studs after start up.
 

GVR-4

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ARP head studs (NOT OEM head bolts) are supposed to be tightened to 90 ft pounds.
 
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toybreaker

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Quoting AnotherNewb:
You and put your tensioner in a vice and use a small drill bit or allen wrench to compress your tensioner, if you don't have the tool.



Wut?

Slow down there, Hoss. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Your conjuctional grammarsyntaxialforcationage is so fubar only Curtis can trully understood what you were saying /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif




AnotherNewb, I think most of us know what you meant, but it sounds like this is new territory for Andrew, so lets take that into consideration when we give him advice.

The vfaq pages cover the job of doing the t-belt fairly well, and it's just in the details you may have questions.

It's best to just replace the tensioner if you don't know it's service history. (along with the timing belt idler pulleys and water pump)

Factory parts work best for me in this application.

Better to do this job once, and do it right!

If you do decide to reuse the tensioner, some care during this service will significantly increase your odds.

When compressing the tensioner, it's best to use soft jaws in the vice, or just stick a piece of plastic in between the vice jaw and the plunger of the tensioner. The reason for this is if you squarsh a waffle pattern into in the pin tip with the vice jaw, it'll wear a divot into the tensioner arm. The pin will catch in that divot, things won't self adjust correctly, and eventually you'll get a funky clicking noise from the t-belt cover area when the engine is idling.

Compress the the tensioner s-l-o-w-l-y!

You'll feel the handle of the vice move easy five or ten seconds after you crank an 1/8th of a turnor so. That's the hydraulic fluid being forced back into reservoir in the tensioner body. If you crank the vice in too fast, you can get crazy hydraulic pressures built up and damage the tensioner internally quite easily. As a tech, I've seen it a few times when a motor skips time right after a belt change. The damaged tensioner will let the pin just squeeze back into the body with a light squeeze/finger pressure.

Just take your time, hold a gentle tension on the vice handle, and let the tensioner compress at it's own pace.

Taking your time with this operation will ensure the best possible outcome.
 

AnotherNewb

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sometimes I forget that not everyone is a rocket scientist, mind reader, or Curtis.
 

Wizardawd

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Here's my 2 cents.

ARP headstuds for a 6-bolt are 80 ft lbs when using the supplied moly grease on the threads. 120ft lbs if using motor oil. That's on the instructions from ARP that comes with the studs.

If you are sure the marks line up, you may have to just bleed the lifters down. Often when the cams are removed and there is still some oil in the galley of the head, the lifters will suck that oil and become kinda stuck at full extend. Not enough to bend valves, but enough to cause very little to no compression.

CAS should be set somewhere in the middle of the adjustment groove. Once it's running you can set it properly to 5deg BTDC or whatever you like.

The timing belt tensioner is not the hydraulic piece. The tensioner is the essentric pulley and is what you set the base tension. The hydraulic adjuster only adds or removes tension when there are changes in load/rpm. A car with a bad adjuster will run ok, but there is high risk of the timing belt becoming too slack during decel and engine start/stop. Easy way to check if its bad is to try to compress it with your thumb. If you can do it, it's bad. If you want to check while the engine is running, remove the upper timing cover and shine a flashligh down the adjuster side of the timing belt (front of car) and bring revs to around 2-2500. A bad adjuster will allow the belt to become really slack at this point and you will definately see AND hear this.
As for reusing, honestly it a very simple device that I have never seen fail. It's usually some asshat compressing it too fast in a vice that blows the seal. So IMO if it's still stiff and you compress it properly, you'll be just fine and $80+ dollars better. And here's a tip to save time. Put the pin in the tensioner BEFORE you loosen the belt. No vice needed as long as the tension was set right in the first place.

Money is on the lifters need to be bled down.

Wiz
 

sweet, thanks guys im workin on it tomorrow with another GVR-4'er and a talon DSM'er so hopefully we can get this figured out. i dont know how to post videos but youtube has a 2 part video of how to redo your timing that was made and distributed by Mitsubishi to the service centers.

click (part 1)
click (part 2)

this is pretty well the only way i had any clue what you guys were talking about. ill let you guys know how it ends up. not gona lie im a little nervous about the 80lbs torque spec, but i trust you guys so ima go for it. over torqued a head on a toyota and that was no fun.
 

bazeng

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That is correct,

80 ft lbs on the standard ARP HEAD STUDS.
60 ft lbs on the mains
40 ft lbs on the rods
100 ft lbs on the L19 head studs.
 

GVR-4

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Not to split hairs, but this is what came with the ARP head studs I installed yesterday:




That's with their supplied fastener assembly lube.
 

bazeng

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Another document I found...

arp4g63tspecslw8.jpg


Are they standard ARP head stud bolts?
How do they feel when torquing them up to 90 ft lbs?
I'm just curious because the L19's felt springy at about 110ft lbs.

ARP seem to give loose figures when quoting torque specs though.
 

GVR-4

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Standard as far as I can tell. They didn't feel springy to me.

Maybe the 207-4201 that I have are not torque to yield, and the others are? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
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