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How much power could be made on a stock USDM turbo (running E85)?

One of the questions I had in this thread: click was how much power could realistically (and reliably) be made with the stock USDM GVR4 turbo (14b I believe)on an internally stock motor. Everything external to the motor (intake/exhaust/fmic/fuel/ecu/etc) are all open and could be modded as needed.

[*]On an internally stock motor how much boost will the stock USDM turbo even support? [*]With stock head-bolts and gasket how much HP/TQ could you make? [*]What about w/ ARPs and a different gasket?[/list]

Please keep in mind I'd be running E85, so factor that into your guesses. Absolute peak power is not the ultimate goal, but a really strong, broad power-band.

-TJ
 

Bearing in mind reliability and not being able to do insane boost levels because of the head studs I would say 300+/- whp at 20 ish lbs of boost and every bolt on.
 

Nartanian

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611
Location
Richfield, MN
The 14b runs outta steam pretty quick. My buddy dyno'd his 1g talon and made 280whp and 312ft lbs of torque on E85. That was with a stock unopened engine.
 

524of1000

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Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
574
Location
San Antonio, Tx
QUOTE:
What is the maximum output from the various turbos?

Max output from various turbos
TD05-14B (stock 1st gen) 275-300hp @ 21 psi
TD05-16G (small) 345-365hp @ 22 psi
TD06-16G (large) 365-385hp @ 22 psi
TD06-20G 430-450hp @ 22 psi
T25 (stock 2nd gen) 235-250hp @ ?? psi
T3 (super 60)/T2.5 hybrid 265-280hp @ ?? psi
T3 (super 60)/T2.8 hybrid 270-320hp @ ?? psi

VFAQ ROCKS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

belize1334

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Messages
3,316
Location
Bozeman, MT
Remember that in SP you can use adjustable cam gears and you can also swap manifolds so if you find yourself running out of steam up top you could potentially "tweak" the engine a bit to help it breath.
 

Brianawd

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Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
565462135462465732165763216546231564321564324654321654362hp
 

Quoting Brianawd:
565462135462465732165763216546231564321564324654321654362hp



Thanks for the super-helpful answer!

-TJ
 

Brianawd

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Location
Portland OR,
Quote:
Thanks for the super-helpful answer!

-TJ



Any time.
 

belize1334

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Messages
3,316
Location
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I'll handle this one Brian.

Quoting Conan:

TO CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES... TO SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU... AND TO HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN!!!


 

Nice. Now, on the topic of crushing one's enemies: how much injector would be needed to support ~300AWHP on E85? I have some Denso 660s and a Slowboy Walbro 255lph kit. Will that get 'er done?

-TJ
 

belize1334

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Messages
3,316
Location
Bozeman, MT
Think of it this way, stoich (lambda=1) for E85 is 9.5 vs. 14.7 for gasoline. That means, negating the fact that you can run a little on the lean side and make more power with higher octane, you can get a conservative estimate for just picking injectors to make the power you want on gas and then multiplying by 1.5 to convert from relative lambda values to relative AFRs.

For 300awhp I'd think you'd want 650s at least to be comfortable. That means you're looking in the 950cc range for E85. On the other hand, if you work backwards, Denso 660s (which flow more like 700) are going to effectively scale back to about 450cc/min... Basically they'll act like stock-sized injectors for that fuel.

I'd say get a set of 1050cc and call it a day.

Also, btw...

Quoting Rulebook:

A. Stock and Street Touring category vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally ap-
proved for use on public highways.” This includes the pump fuel
known as E85, but does not allow racing-type fuels which are avail-
able at service station pumps.
B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified category vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds.




... so as an alternative to e85, you can run race fuel if you want. You can also just add toluene and/or xylene which are pure hydrocarbon compounds and thus qualify as gasoline by the above definition. Their octanes are 114 and 116 respectively (iirc) so mixing 10 gallons of 91 and three gallons of toluene puts me at just over 96 octane. That's about the most you can mix it before you have to worry about it evaporating etc, etc.
 
Last edited:

Thanks for the info! I'm running E85 in my built-motor Z06, it's doing over 600 RWHP NA on 80#/hr injectors. On 91 I would have put 60s in it. I guess I need injectors for the G.

-TJ
 

belize1334

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Here's a question. The SP rules mention that you can remove or replace the air filter, and that you can add velocity stacks. They DON'T mention the air-intake pipe. So, is that just part of the filter assembly or are we stuck with the stock snake-like snorkel. Another grey area. But, to sway it slightly, CBVs are unrestricted. If you were to remove your CBV then you'd have to remove the recirc pipe which would leave a hole in the intake pipe. This could imply that the intake pipe is also open. Or, it could imply that the CBV is no longer open since modifying it requires the modification of another component which is not open... hm... gonna see if I can find some pics of SP cars on the scca forums and see if it looks like they're swapping intake pipes.

edit
Hm... couldn't find a definitive ruling but it seems like people do Cold-Air, Ram-Air, etc...all of which involve swapping the intake pipe.
 
Last edited:

The *SP class I'm most familiar with is ESP. My '99 Z/28 was "almost" an ESP car but the Porsche 996TT brakes I had on it, and removed back seats made it illegal (brakes weren't open then). A lot of my buddies still run ESP Fbodies. Allllllllll of them consider any intake stuff, from the actual intake manifold to the throttle body, to the MAF (or removing the MAF), to the intake tract/filter etc. open.

-TJ
 

Brianawd

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Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
Quote:
So Brian, what's the meaning of life?




f*** bitches get money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif



Any way if I was trying to get the most power out of a 14b. I would use a ported 7cm exhaust housing. With the wastegate welded shut and toss in some ID1000,link,264/264cams with all the rest of the supporting mods.
 

steve

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Sep 11, 2003
Messages
18,897
Location
NJ
Quoting tjZ06:
So Brian, what's the meaning of life?

-TJ



42
 

belize1334

Well-known member
Joined
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Messages
3,316
Location
Bozeman, MT
Quoting Brianawd:
Quote:
So Brian, what's the meaning of life?




f*** bitches get money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif



Any way if I was trying to get the most power out of a 14b. I would use a ported 7cm exhaust housing. With the wastegate welded shut and toss in some ID1000,link,264/264cams with all the rest of the supporting mods.



Unfortunately the class-rules dictate that the cams and waste-gate be unmodified.
 

Quoting Brianawd:
Quote:
So Brian, what's the meaning of life?




f*** bitches get money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif



Any way if I was trying to get the most power out of a 14b. I would use a ported 7cm exhaust housing. With the wastegate welded shut and toss in some ID1000,link,264/264cams with all the rest of the supporting mods.



Can't use cams for what he wants to do and with a 7cm exhaust housing it is probably cheating for his class in autox.


I say ported 2g manifold, stock usdm intake mani, stock intake with a 3g maf (since you have to use the rubber pipe), big injectors for e85, dsmlink, adj. cam gears, 2.5 in exhaust and a dump pipe if allowed.
 
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