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Evo 8 cams in a 4G63

1qkfwd

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Sun Valley, NV
Seems like everytime I bring up the subject it starts cluttering other threads.

I know the swap has been done successfully, they just don't want to share how they did it. Why do the swap? Well the cams are bigger than any factory grind cam for the 1g or 2g. They are also lighter since they are hollow. Finally they can be had pretty cheap. I got mine free from a buddy with the gears.

I haven't finished the swap yet since I still need to get me a set of cam gears. But I have looked at the cams and did some comparisons to the 1g cams. The evo cams bolt into the 1g/2g head. Part of the swap will require the intake cam to be installed where our exhaust cam is and vise versa. That leaves the notch where it needs to be for our cam angle sensor. The downside to this is the notch is not in the right spot with the cam set up at tdc. This is the part I haven't sat down and figured out yet, but I see three ways of doin this. We can possibly change the firing order, second reconfigure the trigger disc in the cam angle sensor, lastly get the kiggly crank trigger setup. With the last one being costly for a budget I'm gonna try to leave that out. As for the timing belt side, the first look is that with the cams swapped around the dowels are 45* off from the dsm cams. Ours sit vertical as the evo cams sit horizontal. I'll get pics as time goes by. I'm in the process of getting 1868 back on the road. Once that's done I'm gonna toy around with cams and see if I can get everything done on the evo cam swap. As for now it's up for disscusion.
 

AnotherNewb

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Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
1,472
Location
Orlando, FL
What are the Evo cams profile? What aftermarket cam would they be compairable to? This subject truely intrigues me.
 

Muskrat

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Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
2,107
Location
Lexington, KY
I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.

Do a google search for this. There are a few how-to's for installing these on dsm talk and tuners I think. Should be able to find cam comparisons too.
 

prove_it

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Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
They bolt right in and all you need to do is put a notch in the intake cam for the cam sensor. Basically from what I know is that they are comparable to 264 degree cams. Like mentioned before, you can pick up a set for almost free. I still can't find 264's for less that 200 a set. Also I think the EVO cams have a faster ramp than HKS cams, not sure though.

Contact Road/Race Engineering, they've done the swap and know what's needed.
 
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1qkfwd

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Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Sun Valley, NV
The evo 9s where mivec. Not sure if they would work or not, I havent really looked into it. Ive been looking up cam specs and cam up with two different numbers. Brian crower has so called specs on there site but all the numbers seem low for reality.
EVO8 specs pulled off socal evo and evom
Duration 260*Int/256*Exh
Lift 10.0 Int/ 9.5 Exh
Centerlines 109*Int/111*Exh

BC states the the EVO8 cams are
Duration 248*Int/248*Exh
Lift 9.8 Int/9.32Exh

I measured just the lobes on the evo8 cams and came up with
Lift 10.41 Int/ 10.00 Exh

Theres nothing more economical than free cams.
 

prove_it

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Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
You have to remember that cams come with two different specs, there is advertised and actual duration lift. It depends on where you take the measurements on the cams.

Evo cams a slight improvement over our stock cams and are good for econo build projects and mild street cars. That's it though.
 

1qkfwd

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Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Sun Valley, NV
I understand that, I do know when just measuring the lobes with a mic the evo cams are indeed a lil bit bigger than stock. Its almost the same difference between the auto cams and manual trans cams. I think that the weight savings of the cams have to be worth something to.
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
Quoting 1qkfwd:
The evo 9s where mivec. Not sure if they would work or not, I havent really looked into it.

Good point, I completely forgot about that. Interesting idea though. I wonder how much of a difference that would make if it could be utilized?
 

iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2001
Messages
10,964
Location
Michigan
Lobe size comparison doesn't mean anything unless valvetrain geometry and rocker arm ratios are all identical. Not saying they aren't, as I have no info in front of me to substantiate it either way, but it may not be a 1:1 comparison.
 

1qkfwd

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Sun Valley, NV
I know the dsm, evo 8, and evo 9 mivec all share the same 1.7:1 rocker ratio. The design of the evo head was based on the dsm head. It was just perfected. The ramp design of the cam is pretty similar also. I'll have to get some pics of what I was looking at today.
 

H05TYL

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Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
752
Location
Wgtn, NZ
Quoting 1qkfwd:

EVO8 specs pulled off socal evo and evom
Duration 260*Int/256*Exh
Lift 10.0 Int/ 9.5 Exh
Centerlines 109*Int/111*Exh

BC states the the EVO8 cams are
Duration 248*Int/248*Exh
Lift 9.8 Int/9.32Exh




here's cam specs for the earlier 4G63's

Inhalation lift quantity (mm)
Inspiration angle (degrees)
Exhaust lift quantity (mm)
Exhaust action angle (degrees)

RVR SSG - 8.5 252 8.5 252
Evo 1 - 8.5 252 8.5 252
RVR HSG - 9.5 252 9.5 252
Evo 2/3 - 9.5 252 9.5 252
VR4 - 9.5 252 9.5 252
AMG - 10 260 9.5 264

Note: the above is taken from MMC's search, was originally posted by evo_x_coupe
 

1qkfwd

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
209
Location
Sun Valley, NV
That's very interesting. I wonder what the factory id stamp is on those cams. I've ran across alot of cams with the r series stamp. I'm starting to think these are jdm/edm cams since all these engines we get are imported. It looks as if the amg cams are close to our evo 8 cams.
 

SSGdave

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
137
Location
San Diego, CA
Quoting Muskrat:
I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.



*Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE*
Yeah, I've done it and I'll share. It's requires some very simple machine work BUT to adapt these camshafts is actually quite simple. I stumbled on to the simularities of the non MiVEC CT9A camshaft while at work (I'm a Mitsu Technician on the civilian side) so, after taking some measurements and then checking out the cam spec's, I had a machinist buddy move the camshaft's cam gear pins to the same location as the DSM/GVR4 cams using that 1st lob as a reference point. Finally the EVO intake camshaft had the CAS slot cut into it (Non MiVEC EVO cams have the CAS slot on the Exhaust cam) I also used the EVO 8 valve springs and retainers. After the machine work, the cams drop in the head just like any oem or aftermarket cam.
If any one is planning on doing this I must remind you... To get the real benefit of these camshafts you must install them in the correct orientation. The EVO intake and exhaust cam have different spec's.

Ok price... I was given 2 sets of EVO 8 camshafts for free. I also bought a set from eBay for $50
My machinist buddy charged me $40 to modify all 3 sets.
How's that for cost effective? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Now here is the funny part, I built that engine 4 years ago and it sat in storage this whole time. I recently installed that EVO 8 cam engine into 1855/2000. So I've been sitting on this information for quite some time *sorry guys*

Impressions: I have driven many different incarnations of the 4G63 engine, from completely stock to extreme modification (dsm/gvr/csm/evo) and I will tell you, these cams on 14b 11psi are noticeable, these cams on a14b at 16/17psi are noticeable. Power delivery from 4k-7.5k rpm is improved vs normal cams. Considering the price, these cams are worth it.

Once I finish the engine completely I would love to dyno it. I'm very curious as to the results. I would not be surprised if max output is not much over oem spec (respectively) BUT when and how the car makes power is much more refined. It's one of those "car should of came this way" type deals.

Bottom line, I built a Daly Driver (my version) and these cams are exactly what I wanted. It idles like stock and improves the powerband AND in certian the car is still going to pass CA emissions.
 

CutlassJim

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,698
Location
Manchester, NH
Quoting SSGdave:
Quoting Muskrat:
I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but for the cost and effort it takes to do this, it's probably more economical to buy some used 264 cams, that will drop in.



*Thread... RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE*
Yeah, I've done it and I'll share. It's requires some very simple machine work BUT to adapt these camshafts is actually quite simple. I stumbled on to the simularities of the non MiVEC CT9A camshaft while at work (I'm a Mitsu Technician on the civilian side) so, after taking some measurements and then checking out the cam spec's, I had a machinist buddy move the camshaft's cam gear pins to the same location as the DSM/GVR4 cams using that 1st lob as a reference point. Finally the EVO intake camshaft had the CAS slot cut into it (Non MiVEC EVO cams have the CAS slot on the Exhaust cam) I also used the EVO 8 valve springs and retainers. After the machine work, the cams drop in the head just like any oem or aftermarket cam.
If any one is planning on doing this I must remind you... To get the real benefit of these camshafts you must install them in the correct orientation. The EVO intake and exhaust cam have different spec's.

Ok price... I was given 2 sets of EVO 8 camshafts for free. I also bought a set from eBay for $50
My machinist buddy charged me $40 to modify all 3 sets.
How's that for cost effective? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Now here is the funny part, I built that engine 4 years ago and it sat in storage this whole time. I recently installed that EVO 8 cam engine into 1855/2000. So I've been sitting on this information for quite some time *sorry guys*

Impressions: I have driven many different incarnations of the 4G63 engine, from completely stock to extreme modification (dsm/gvr/csm/evo) and I will tell you, these cams on 14b 11psi are noticeable, these cams on a14b at 16/17psi are noticeable. Power delivery from 4k-7.5k rpm is improved vs normal cams. Considering the price, these cams are worth it.

Once I finish the engine completely I would love to dyno it. I'm very curious as to the results. I would not be surprised if max output is not much over oem spec (respectively) BUT when and how the car makes power is much more refined. It's one of those "car should of came this way" type deals.

Bottom line, I built a Daly Driver (my version) and these cams are exactly what I wanted. It idles like stock and improves the powerband AND in certian the car is still going to pass CA emissions.



I can back all of this. I have 8 cams in my 2G piston/head engine with 8 cam gears and a slot machined into the exhaust cam (cams swapped) and on a 16G at 26psi the power from 4k up was much improved over a stock cam. I also ran Evo 9 valves and springs/retainers.
 

kaptainballistik

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
70
Location
Sydney, NSW
Ive just stumbled across this!

Ive got a VR4 rallycar with the RS cams ( and the 7.8:1 CR pistons! ) and a small 16g with a restrictor.

So basically I can mod the CAS slot on the Mill and they should work? For me the 262's ( Evo8 MR cams /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) are exactly what I need. And i have access to a set.

and the car lives at a toolmakers workshop so machining isnt an issue /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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Okayplayer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
255
Location
Denver, CO
I'm jumping on this bandwagon too. I just stumbled across a set from an evo8 for $25! I have a good machinist that will do the cas slot too. Bingo bango.
 

3rdstrikedsm

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
3,402
Location
32159, FL
Evo 8 mr cams are the exact same as gsr cams here in the states and if you wan't to use eco 8 cams then just get fidenza cam gears which are drilled for dsm and evo so no need to move the dowel pin.
 

Diego

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
Good score.... makes me think of things down the road later
 
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