MellowVR4
Well-known member
ok whats the worst that can happen if i dont have power steering but still have all the 4ws on the car and the rack and pinion in front. just trying to diagnose something. let me know. thnx
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4ws?
- Thread starterMellowVR4
- Start date
If you don't cap the lines that run from the front rack to the rear then your going to run into a major issue. That would be that there is no hydraulic pressure going to the rear and therefore nothing controlling the rear wheels steering, allowing it to do whatever it likes essentially. Just cap them and you should be fine.
MellowVR4
Well-known member
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif uhoh i think i screwd up bad, they have not been caped since i got the car. What will happen if ive been driving it like this for like a year?
raptorWagon
Well-known member
I take it you have been driving with a dry rack, there's no problem with that, just make sure to remove your power steering pump and belt. Don't want to burn out that pump or snap the belt. No fluid in the lines would make it just like a 1g DSM. 1Gs have active toe in, which is basically Passive 4WS where as ours is Active 4WS.
When you get the chance though do remove the rear rack and lines altogether.
When you get the chance though do remove the rear rack and lines altogether.
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MellowVR4
Well-known member
yea eventualy im gona swap a 4bolt lsd rear end with the entire subframe, so everything that has to do with 4ws will be removed. does anybody know what year did the manual steering come on the galant
raptorWagon
Well-known member
Easier to find a manual rack off a NT 1g dsm (1.8L and some 2.0L), than hunt down a regular 6th gen galant.
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i had my pump go out and let me say "wow" it was very hard to steer the car almost to the point that it felt that i was going to break the steering wheel off i was pulling so hard and power steering is great why wouldnt u want it
Quoting blue642:
If you don't cap the lines that run from the front rack to the rear then your going to run into a major issue. That would be that there is no hydraulic pressure going to the rear and therefore nothing controlling the rear wheels steering, allowing it to do whatever it likes essentially. Just cap them and you should be fine.
That just makes it like a 1G DSM as someone else pointed out. "Passive 4WS".
If you don't cap the lines that run from the front rack to the rear then your going to run into a major issue. That would be that there is no hydraulic pressure going to the rear and therefore nothing controlling the rear wheels steering, allowing it to do whatever it likes essentially. Just cap them and you should be fine.
That just makes it like a 1G DSM as someone else pointed out. "Passive 4WS".
raptorWagon
Well-known member
Quoting Kid_eclypse:
i had my pump go out and let me say "wow" it was very hard to steer the car almost to the point that it felt that i was going to break the steering wheel off i was pulling so hard and power steering is great why wouldnt u want it
I've been driving with a dry rack since a month after I picked up the car in 08', you get used to it after a while and it becomes easy. Just need to build up those weak muscles in your arms there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Then again you were fighting the all the fluid still in the lines, so that's what made it so difficult for you. No fluid in the lines and you'll be fine.
i had my pump go out and let me say "wow" it was very hard to steer the car almost to the point that it felt that i was going to break the steering wheel off i was pulling so hard and power steering is great why wouldnt u want it
I've been driving with a dry rack since a month after I picked up the car in 08', you get used to it after a while and it becomes easy. Just need to build up those weak muscles in your arms there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Then again you were fighting the all the fluid still in the lines, so that's what made it so difficult for you. No fluid in the lines and you'll be fine.
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MellowVR4
Well-known member
alrite alrite i see, im gona do that and let u guys know what happen
lol my arms arent to wimpy! its was just a surprise when it went out when your use too having it, and i love my power steering but in the mean time ill make sure to hit the gym just in case this happens again lmao
raptorWagon
Well-known member
I just said to hell with it, when the capped off lines from the previous owners failed on me. Fixed the low pressure lines that were leaking, but when I went to fire up the car...%@#@$!@ pissing out the high pressure ends FFS. So i just pulled the belt and pump after I drained the rest of the fluid. I'm a pretty skinny dude, took some getting used to, U-turns and parallel parking were the hardest for me. AutoX is a workout, but as they say "Get Crazy Straw and Suck It Up".
4wheelsqueal
Well-known member
what about the pump on the rear end? when i pulled the 4ws off 713, noticed there's an auxillary pump that runs off the rear end. it's bolted to the pumkin on the rear end. if there's no fluid being run thru it, will the pump burn up? i just went and swaped pumkins but so can post pics of the pump if people don't know what i'm talking about.
MellowVR4
Well-known member
IM not sure if it will burn up but like they said the rack in the raer will just kind of do its own thing with out the p/s fluid. but im swaping out my rearend.
raptorWagon
Well-known member
Quoting 4wheelsqueal:
what about the pump on the rear end? when i pulled the 4ws off 713, noticed there's an auxillary pump that runs off the rear end. it's bolted to the pumkin on the rear end. if there's no fluid being run thru it, will the pump burn up? i just went and swaped pumkins but so can post pics of the pump if people don't know what i'm talking about.
If anything the 4ws pump is hydraulically driven, there is no electrical power to it, just valves, so with no fluid it wouldn't function at all.
Quoting MellowVR4:
IM not sure if it will burn up but like they said the rack in the raer will just kind of do its own thing with out the p/s fluid.
It's no different than a 1G dsm without active 4WS. All the fluid is doing is actively forcing adjustment of the Toe in 1.5 degrees. A 1g will do the same thing passively, that's why places like Jay Racing sell the weld in Trailing Arm Connecting rods, to solve the understeer that is caused the passive 4WS (Active Toe In).
what about the pump on the rear end? when i pulled the 4ws off 713, noticed there's an auxillary pump that runs off the rear end. it's bolted to the pumkin on the rear end. if there's no fluid being run thru it, will the pump burn up? i just went and swaped pumkins but so can post pics of the pump if people don't know what i'm talking about.
If anything the 4ws pump is hydraulically driven, there is no electrical power to it, just valves, so with no fluid it wouldn't function at all.
Quoting MellowVR4:
IM not sure if it will burn up but like they said the rack in the raer will just kind of do its own thing with out the p/s fluid.
It's no different than a 1G dsm without active 4WS. All the fluid is doing is actively forcing adjustment of the Toe in 1.5 degrees. A 1g will do the same thing passively, that's why places like Jay Racing sell the weld in Trailing Arm Connecting rods, to solve the understeer that is caused the passive 4WS (Active Toe In).
14u2nV
Well-known member
Quote:
Quoting 4wheelsqueal:
what about the pump on the rear end? when i pulled the 4ws off 713, noticed there's an auxillary pump that runs off the rear end. it's bolted to the pumkin on the rear end. if there's no fluid being run thru it, will the pump burn up? i just went and swaped pumkins but so can post pics of the pump if people don't know what i'm talking about.
If anything the 4ws pump is hydraulically driven, there is no electrical power to it, just valves, so with no fluid it wouldn't function at all.
I'm either reading this wrong, or you are incorrect. The rear pump has a gear that goes into the rearend, so it is still "functioning" no matter whether the fluid is there or not.
I'm not sure what affect it will have, as it may just be a return pump, or booster, but I'd think if there is still fluid in the lines, and the front pump is not active, the rear will just be fighting against the pressure in the lines. Without fluid, maybe it gets a little warmer, and may sieze, but I don't imagine it would be a "lock up the rear" type of catastrophe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Quoting 4wheelsqueal:
what about the pump on the rear end? when i pulled the 4ws off 713, noticed there's an auxillary pump that runs off the rear end. it's bolted to the pumkin on the rear end. if there's no fluid being run thru it, will the pump burn up? i just went and swaped pumkins but so can post pics of the pump if people don't know what i'm talking about.
If anything the 4ws pump is hydraulically driven, there is no electrical power to it, just valves, so with no fluid it wouldn't function at all.
I'm either reading this wrong, or you are incorrect. The rear pump has a gear that goes into the rearend, so it is still "functioning" no matter whether the fluid is there or not.
I'm not sure what affect it will have, as it may just be a return pump, or booster, but I'd think if there is still fluid in the lines, and the front pump is not active, the rear will just be fighting against the pressure in the lines. Without fluid, maybe it gets a little warmer, and may sieze, but I don't imagine it would be a "lock up the rear" type of catastrophe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
raptorWagon
Well-known member
I may be incorrect, as the threads I've read before, it was said the pump was just pivoted on the top of the pumpkin, didn't know there was any sort of sprocket on the bottom of the pump. Do think you are correct that it wouldn't cause any sort of "Lock up the rear end", I just swapped out my rear diff a few months ago for a LSD rear diff, and had been driving with the 4ws pump still intact for over a year with no fluid. the 4WS rear pump and powersteering front rack were the only remains of any 4WS system.
14u2nV
Well-known member
No, I don't think it would. IIRC, the other gear is plastic, so it would just sheer if the pump locked up. I'm not in any way saying it would cause danger,, lots of guys have done it and you never hear of issues. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
prove_it
Well-known member
Even if the drive and driven gear are metal they have small teeth and I would see either the gears stripping out or the shaft would break. It's not as beefy as the differential. Only real issue is that it could send pieces into the diff and that could screw it up. Like mentioned before though, no one has had any issues yet.
