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Car Feels Like It Swerves

KiNgMaRtY

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
When I bought my VR-4 it came with H&R springs and AGX's. Ride was poor and was really bad on the freeway. I immediately ordered some Konis and the ride quality drastically improved. At the same time I also replace all the upper strut mounts with KYB's. I also replaced the front endlinks and the bushings with Energy Suspension along with the sway bar bushing's in the front. As for the rear I could not find whole replacement endlinks so I just replaced the bushings with ES aswell. I took it to get aligned shortly after and they "checked" my suspension components and said everything appeared to be okay. Tires are wearing down but still have thread. Doesn't feel like the tire would be at fault for the feeling I am getting with the car.

I noticed that what did not go away was at higher speeds above 70mph the car's rearend feels very unsteady or the car as a whole feels to swerve from left to right, right to left, almost as if it were rocking side to side. I have driven it like this for well over 18months but I feel I need to get this issue taken care of as it is quite annoying at freeway speeds.

Few weeks ago I took a very hard left turn but was very well calculated and my rear end wanted to swing out on me. I counter steering and gained control. Under hard acceleration I do feel some vibrating and from what appears a bit of clunking on occasion and at a full right turn say going into a driveway when you are already on the right lane I will get clunking.

Just looking to find a solution.

Thanks
 

KiNgMaRtY

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Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
I have owned a 4ws car before, 89 Mazda MX-6 GT Turbo 4WS ( I know the Mazda 4ws was far more superior in every way than the Mitsu system)and it felt nothing like this. I know my issue does not have anything to do with the 4ws system because it will do the swerving and rocking just going straight with very little movement of steering to either side
 

Terry Posten

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Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
The rear sub frame is held on by the mustache bar which has 2 large bushings and two other large bushing in front the the rear wheels.

I would bet that these 4 bushings are bad.

get the car off the ground by using jack stands on the frame rails. Do not have it supported by the rear sub frame. Allow that to be free to hang.

Grab hold of the trailing arms and yank on them back and forth and up and down. I would bet that you have noticeable movement.
 

Terry Posten

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Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
This is what I mean. Some good pics in this trhead.

click
 

curtis

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Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
I'll add to this since I helped Vinny yesterday. All of his stuff was in good shape but the reason for the rear subframe bushing production was John's car in Florida having bad bushings. It can happen.

The mustache brace holds the diff in position and helps it from moving side to side. Its held on by a through bolt that attaches to the left and rights side of the trunk floor. Its attached on top by a 8mm bolt on each. I've seen frames rusted out and also bolts that have become ripped loose from people loosening the rusted on nut from the bottom. Then the subframe bolt is the same deal except there's 3 bolts under the car that hold them in from below it has a large washer and plate system that bolts on with one bolt for safety. The mustache brace has a solid bushing but the main subframe isn't. It has two spots of rubber then a inter ring of steel that are in two halves then two more small places of rubber. I would bet it has one or both of the main subframe bushings completely worn out.

I don't have any of the bushings left but John does so PM Boostx for a set of them.


Easiest way to inspect is jack up the car put it on jackstands and then jack up on one side of the frame and remove the lower plate and then lower the jack...I bet the subframe starts to come straight down.
 

KiNgMaRtY

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Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
Over the weekend I tried the jacking up the car and pulling on the arms in the rear. They seemed very stiff, no play and I have no rust anywhere, Cali car. I will be buying tires soon and hope its just that they are real worn.

Thank you for the help. I may have to try the second test
 

Also try replacing your rear sway bar, it made a big difference in my car, I had similar problems, but I also had to address other issues.
 

chucklesas

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Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
1,895
Location
Dayton, OH
What size tires are you using? Could it just be an issue with the car trying to track to the slight groves/wear/slopes in the road?
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
If it moves around on the rain grooves in the freeway, but doesn't on a normal street, the problem may actually be in the front suspension.

The clunking suggests bad front ball joints, or inner/outer tie rods.

Another thing I've seen cause this type of symptom after bushing replacement is an issue with the front control arm rear pins. Water wicks into the space between the bushing and the pin, and corrodes the pin. This makes a rough surface, and then as the suspension compresses/rebounds, it will eat away the inside of the bushing. This will let the rear of the control arm move around, and as a result the caster will change randomly.

This will really make a car move around on rain grooves.

Be sure to check your steering rack bushings while you're in there. Just have someone roll the steering back and forth, and watch the rack mounts. If the rack is moving on the crossmember, the car will self steer, and it's also really noticeable on rain grooves.

Good luck sorting this out, and if you need local help, send a pm to DailyDsm. Tim's a pretty saavy cat, and he might be able to help you narrow down the possibilities.
 
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KiNgMaRtY

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
Quoting Charles:
What size tires are you using? Could it just be an issue with the car trying to track to the slight groves/wear/slopes in the road?


I am using 225/40/18's. I will be getting a new set soon. Looking to go with 245/40/18's. It doesn't feel like its because of pulls do to the road grooves.
 

How are your trailing arm bushings in the rear? They are designed to have some flex in them from the factory, and the 4ws system merely pushes against them and they give enough to get 1.5* of caster or something. Worn bushings can move a lot more though, and allowing the trailing arm to wobble like that can definitely give the car an unsettled, floaty feeling. The ultimate solution is to replace the bushing and endlink with a heim joint welded into the control arm, but who knows, some window weld in there might help things out.

I too was having similar sensations while driving my car and thus am currently engaged in a comprehensive suspension repair job to rid the cause. I had a bad tie rod end on the DS and bad ball joint on the PS which gave, um, interesting steering characteristics over rough roads (in Eugene, that's all of them) but was noticing the odd wandering rear end long before that. 4ws is eliminated from my car (rack deleted but stock trailing arms), though the front two subframe bushings in the rear are definitely shot. I think that's a major contributor to my issue and look forward to driving it after I put the new subframe bushings in.
 
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KiNgMaRtY

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
835
Location
Corona, CA
Thought I would check back in.

I since then replaced the Rack&Pinion with a rebuilt unit, new inner and outer front tie-rods, new front ball joint joints, front and rear control arm Energy Suspension Poly bushings, and rear Whiteline camber bushings. Night and day difference. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I also replaced the tires to some 225/40/18 Hankook Evo V12's.

I appreciate all of you that chimed in with advise.
 
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