Its knock, but its not knock.

[gvr4ever]

I've been trying to diagnose a ticking/tapping noise in my engine. I started it up today with the logger just to turn the injectors off one at a time, making sure that one of them didn't get loud.

One thing I noticed, if I rev it, my keydiver LED knock gauge lights up, but the logger showed zero knock. Anyone know what could cause that? All other information was coming in and working on the logger. Also, no error codes.

Cars smells rich, but it might have still been cold, not sure. It sputtered for a moment when I tried to give it some gas, but then it seems fine. No bad noises when revving it up a little, just a single tick in the engine. Seems like only one step in one spot on the four strokes. If that makes since to anyone. The tick is not very fast compared to all the strokes the engine makes.

For anyone that hasn't seen my other recent post, I just replaced the lifters with new 3rd revision ones.

 

[1990ggsxnj]

Have you set your base timing correctly? I used to get that same thing on the my first DSM and quickly realized that I need to check the timing whenever I get a car (if adjustable) since nobody seems to do it right lol.

 

[gvr4ever]

I have, but I guess I can recheck it just to make sure.

 

[gvr4ever]

Would a wrong base timing trip the key diver knock gauge? I guess only keydiver can know what would trip it, when the logger reads zero.

 

[turbowop]

Does it make the noise with the clutch disengaged? I remember when some loose flywheel bolts had me thinking my rods were knocking.

 

[gvr4ever]

Nope, clutch in and out make no difference. I had loose transmission bolts after a clutch job and I thought I got a bad TOB. It was just user error. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have decided not to bother with a compression test at least for now. Its starts right up and vacuum is correct. The only thing I can think of it possible being in the head, is if some how the valve stopped seating correctly, but I'd think that would make for some really crappy sounds and running conditions. As it is, the sound seems to be coming from the very top of the head, on the intake side. Before I thought it was on the exhaust side, but I stuck my ear up closer and all along the exhaust side. Sounds very near the top of the head.

I'm still confused as to why the knock LEDs would light up, but the logger would read zero. Its almost like the LEDs gets tripped by another sensor besides the knock sensor. Anyone know anything about this?

 

[prove_it]

Get a hold of keydiver and discuss it with him. He'll know more about the circuit and driver for the lights. You MAY just have a short in the wiring, and a separate noise issue.

 

[gvr4ever]

I PMed him. No responce yet. I was thinking of just unplugging the knock sensor to see if the LEDs still go off.

I guess I should add that when the knock gage LEDs go off, the car gets real slow, like timing is being pulled.

 

[gvr4ever]

I started it up today and it still has a tick, but for some reason, it didn't seem as loud or scary today. I hooked the logger up again and was reading on pocketlogger for dummmies. I remember what most of it did, but it does seem like the overall fuel trims are rich.

fuel trim hi is 81%
fuel trim mid is 86%
fuel trim low is 89%

How low is too low? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should be really close to 100% right? Under is rich and over is lean right?

Still clueless as to why the key diver knock gage goes off if the logger reads none. Keydiver?

In the end, I suspect I will have to send my injectors off to be clean, flow matched and tested. I have a chip for EVO 560s, but maybe they flow more then that. Iv'e heard rumors that they can flow closer to 600cc. Is that true?

Also also checked the base timing and its at 5 degrees and the base fuel pressure is set to stock.

 

[prove_it]

What are your spark plugs like? If they are worn or old, get some new ones and see if you get an improvement.

 

[gvr4ever]

They are only a few months old.

 

[prove_it]

You should still check them, it's the best way to check the real running conditions in each cylinder.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting gvr4ever:


fuel trim hi is 81%
fuel trim mid is 86%
fuel trim low is 89%




Ideal trims would be as close to 100% as possible. Your hi trim is maxed out though, so you should lean out the fuel a bit in that area. I just try to keep mine anywhere in the 85% to 115% range. It was easier to keep them near 100% with a 2gMaf and an AFC, but with speed density it has become more difficult and not worth worrying about.

 

[gvr4ever]

I don't have a piggy back, just a keydiver chip, 3G MAS, and EVO injectors. I can't change the tune. Anyone know keydiver? I'm having to rent a car for work and not really making a whole lot right now. I need a fast fix, or this car will be useless to me. Out of all the times it hasn't failed me, its really bending me over when I need it the most. I'm might be looking at a Civic this week, but I could really use some in site as to why the knock gage would go off, and pull timing, but the logger reads none. I'm getting a lot of push to unload this car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I actually took the car out for a spin today. Before boost and taking off, the knock gage goes off like crazy. I can actually get in to full boost and not have it go off at all.

 

[Lonewolf64]

Does your chip have the phantom knock code? I had a similar problem that went away completely once I had keydiver make a chip with the phantom knock code.

 

[chucklesas]

What fuel pump are you running and do you have an aftermarket AFPR?

 

[gvr4ever]

Rewired Walbro 255 pump and a BR/SX AFPR.

 

[gvr4ever]

Quoting Lonewolf64:
Does your chip have the phantom knock code? I had a similar problem that went away completely once I had keydiver make a chip with the phantom knock code.



What is the phantom knock code? Also, the logger shows no knock, just the knock gage. It goes off randomly, when trying to take off normally. Sometimes, its perfect, other times, its a nightmare.

 

[turbowop]

Phantom knock, fuel trims, and tuning aside, you really need to figure out what's ticking or knocking in your engine if it's anything other than normal lifter tick. Seems to me that is your main concern at this point.

 

[gvr4ever]

The strange thing was, today, it wasn't that loud. It sounded like a little bit of lifter tick, with new lifters?!?!?

I suspect that a sensor is failing but I'm not going to just start randomly replacing stuff. The TPS is original, but I'm also at 122K miles. I have never had surge and the TPS catches the RPMs and softly takes the car back to idle.

I never did unplug the knock sensor today, but it is new. I'm just wondering if any other sensor causes the ECU to retard timing. I drove the car up to red line today and it did it smoothly and pulled hard. Just have a low/mid RPM bog. Some days its okay, other days its bad. Thats why I figure it's a picky sensor, because the problem is random.