Staggered wheels on awd...

OK, so I know you aren't supposed to do it but I have a set of wheels laying around and I want to see what the ruckus is about. I have a set of wheels 17x7 and 17x8 +32 all the way around and 225s all the way around. Obviously the rear wheels are wider but the tires are the same width all the way around. Will that work or does it even matter?

I have heard about "You can't do it unless the contact patch is the same front and rear etc" but anybody have firsthand experience. The wheels are hot and I'd like to throw them on for a bit if I could but I dont want to completely ruin my drivetrain. No hearsay, just facts and first hand evidence please. Like Toybreaker style facts.

Overall diameter is what messes up drivetrains from what I have researched and these would be fine.

 

[curtis]

supposedly the transfer case is like 1.04:1 and not a true 1:1 so were suppose to keep the tire pressures 2 pounds different to counteract this or some nonsense written here before. It really comes down to circumference of the two in the rear compared to the front. The narrower tires will hold the tires taller than the rear which will change the roll out but your probably going to see that much change with HP cars that spin the tires up front in a corner or have tires that are worn down on one end of the car more than others.


Actually I bet the rollout is less than .250 or something different but it is different.

 

[turbowop]

This may not be fact, but...

I would think that a 225 width tire would be a little shorter in height on an 8" rim compared to a 7" rim since the tire would be stretched a bit more to fit the width of the wheel. I don't know if I'd want to risk it, but I suppose if they're mounted already you could measure the overall diameter of both and if they're the same it would be possible to run them. Overall diameter is your only concern for the drivetrain.

*edit* Curtis explained it better and replied ahead of me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hs.gif

 

[curtis]

remember tires expand as well under load and temp. Thats one reason aircraft run nitrogen in the tires. Email some tire manufactures and see if theres any data on the two widths. I'm sure its on the interweb somewhere.

 

They are kuhmo ecsta ast's if anybody can find out anything. So worst case maybe inflate the rears a little more to compensate for the tiny bit more the sidewall would be stretched?

 

[turbowop]

I don't know if you could inflate them enough to counteract the difference. At least without messing with the way the tire wears anyway.

 

Sounds like hard launches would mess it up more than the slight difference this would make.

 

[CarRacer]

Our racing tires changed a suprising amount with only a tire pressure change. The cheapest method to check this out would be to buy a tailor's tape measure. It's basically a cloth tape measure that will conform easily to the surface of the tire. The really thin metal tape measures (1/4" wide) work too but 6' ones aren't long enough to go around the tire. You can measure the tire laying down or on the car while it's on jackstands. I prefer measuring while the car is in the air as it's far easier. Loop it around the tire and try to loosely follow a tread channel to keep the tape somewhat straight.

Basically you're checking for stagger. We use to run different sizes on the rear to compensate for always turning left with a locked rearend. The outside tire would turn faster as it was traveling a longer distance. It depended on the track but we ran anywhere from an 1" to 3" of rear stagger. The dirt guys get really crazy with stagger and run upwards of a foot.

 

[thecman02]

I don't know how much this relates to GVR4's but I remember reading a magazine article with wheel tuning on a Lancer EVO. They had the same size tires front and back but they changed the width of the wheel to adjust the tires profile and grip. They didn't seem concerned with the minute difference in tire diameter;however the center diff on evo's is probably more conducive to doing things like that without causing harm.

 

How would the Evo's center diff take it differently? From what I have seen there are FX35 (Infiniti suv things) that race with really staggered Nismo 350z wheels and have no issues for years.

Last question while I'm here, center bore off lets say an Accord would be the same as ours right?

 

[1941Galant]

^What year accord? It seems they do vary

click

Anyway, what is the max tire variance allowed on our cars? I know some of the Jeeps have a VLSD center diff and they are allowed a slight variance in tread depth.

 

[jepherz]

Quoting CarRacer:
Our racing tires changed a suprising amount with only a tire pressure change. The cheapest method to check this out would be to use a piece of string . It's basically a cloth tape measure that will conform easily to the surface of the tire. The really thin metal tape measures (1/4" wide) work too but 6' ones aren't long enough to go around the tire. You can measure the tire laying down or on the car while it's on jackstands. I prefer measuring while the car is in the air as it's far easier. Loop it around the tire and try to loosely follow a tread channel to keep the tape somewhat straight.

Basically you're checking for stagger. We use to run different sizes on the rear to compensate for always turning left with a locked rearend. The outside tire would turn faster as it was traveling a longer distance. It depended on the track but we ran anywhere from an 1" to 3" of rear stagger. The dirt guys get really crazy with stagger and run upwards of a foot.

 

[Gimpin]

a string many times will stretch ... therefore it is better to use something flexable that does not stretch

 

Quoting 1941Galant:
^What year accord? It seems they do vary

click

Anyway, what is the max tire variance allowed on our cars? I know some of the Jeeps have a VLSD center diff and they are allowed a slight variance in tread depth.



94-97 accord is what they were on before. I think they were on a 4 lug 240sx before that.

 

Ok an accord stock hub bore is 64.1 and we are 67.1. These are Advan SA3A's and I have read that most aftermarket companies have bigger hub bore than stock like 70 ish. Since they are staggered I am thinking they are for Nissans before and they are 66.1 so that is even closer. Car is still at paint and I don't have a caliper on me or I would just measure it myself. Thanks guys.

 

[prove_it]

So the OP is willing to completly mess up his drivetrain, just to put on some fancy rims? I seriously do not understand some people.

 

Oh hi there, I'm the OP and my name is Jay. I have been on this site a little more than 4 years now and you can address me directly. I'll slow it down so maybe you can understand this:

Rather than spew horseshit like "You'll mess up your drivetrain" without any science behind it, why don't you add some proof, facts, theory behind WHY I would mess up my drivetrain? I have seen awd cars with staggered wheels with no ill effects. Evo's and 3kgt's being the car. They had the same width tire and reported no problem. This thread is about that discussion of how it works.

I already have "fancy" wheels on the car. I have multiple set of wheels and I think this particular set would look nice on the car. So...I'm doing my research to see if it's internet garbage that you can't do it period OR what steps need to be taken to do it properly.

BoZZ speed and the Cyber Evo have staggered wheels. How do they do it "Prove it"? If you can't answer that then gtfo.

 

[boostedinaz]

Quoting prove_it:
So the OP is willing to completly mess up his drivetrain, just to put on some fancy rims? I seriously do not understand some people.



No he is trying to find out if it will mess up his drivetrain so that he decide to put them on or not. You also have little place to talk. You're the guy that said people just don't have time to fix things correctly because if they did the car would never be driven.


It's really going to end up being the difference in rollout as Carracer said. The only problem become what is the allowable difference before the center diff get's all huffy and eats it.

 

[JNR]

assuming we're talking staggered OD and not track?

If it's within a small range (say 1/2"), it's fine, but maybe one the cars you're referring where it's noticeably different they use different gear ratios front and rear, to compensate? Just thinking out loud.

 

[Rausch]

Quote:

Oh hi there, I'm the OP and my name is Jay.

Hi Jay, this is a nice thread you have here.


Let's look at what we know for sure: Mitsu, and pretty much anyone else in the known world recommends that tires are replaced on AWD cars as a set, not in pairs. We have all heard the "Don't mix tires" statements as well. Let's just assume that there is something behind these statements. The question now becomes how finite do we need to be?

Race cars can run pretty much whatever they want, within reason, as they are designed with a given limited lifespan. In this case I would imagine that a relatively small difference would not be catastrophic, but the further you go the more the VCU will most likely hate you. I would image that this can be extrapolated to a point of failure. Unfortunately, I really have no idea what the limit really is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Edit: click Little VCU reading for your life. For fun..