Need Some serious motor building discussion

[mountaineerjeff]

Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE. I was about 6" from givin up hope and trashing it, but i kept it in the yard, and things are starting to turn around. My father has given me a garage to do all my work on, and keep the car out of the elements. So since im set for right now as far as trasportation goes, and the fire resoration will take time, im gonna be building a new motor to put in the car, while the repairs to the wiring and such are being made. and this is where i need help, ive got down some basics, and did research, but everyone has opinions, and i want to know if im getting my stuff right.

IM looking to make alot of power, while remaining completely DD. I want reliability.
A tuner once told me you can have a car that is cheap, fast or reliable....... now pick 2
Well im picking fast and reliable.


This is what im thinkin so far,
forged pistons 9.0:1 or higher
forged rods

keep it 2.0, no bore or stroke, should this just be a turbo block? or can this be forged as well?

Evo3 head with 272 cams
not sure about porting this, maybe just a mild intake port
If evo3 CANNOT be found, then a 2g, but I think i will be able to find a head

I know evo3 IM are the mhi option, but should I go to a SMIM?
EVO3 or 1g TB

I want a turbo that will bolt to factory manifold, and o2 housing.
ill settle for a ported evo3 b16g, but is there anything better.
Im pretty posititve there is, but my focus for now is not on the turbo choice, even though it should play a role in the rest of the build


Dont ride my ass about bein a noob or anything, I did research, I just dont have anyone to bounce ideas off of.

 

[GVR4_1057]

Why are you so determined for it to be your DD? Big expensive fast nice car builds take time. The garage is a great first step. It is insanity to try to drive a car as you are building it as you have experienced, not having a good DD to get you around during the build causes things to be completed without the attention to detail that keeps things reliable.

 

You want complete reliability?

-Build a *Stock* but fresh 6-bolt 4g63 with no Balance Shafts.

-Build your trans/x-fer case to freshness.

-Replace All your brakes, fluids, remove 4ws, balljoints, tierods, are you getting the point?

The only way to gain maximum reliability is to *not* slap a bunch of modifications on your car.

Yes, its a 4g63. Yes it can make stupid power easily, and cheaply.

But is it the 4g63 that gives up usually? Well if you don't maintain it, yea.

But most of the time it's all the *Other* 18 year old parts that give up.

Brakes lines, and clutch master, and fuel pump and wiring, etc, etc.

Don't waste your time or money on a "Built" engine. Then all you have is a built engine, and nothing around it that can handle the stress.

Bone stock, well prepared (No B/S, good oil pressure, good compression) 4g63s can do 550awhp, you won't need all of it.

Real talk from a guy who has been through it countless times, and finally found the "Formula"

Good luck.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

it is going to be a dd cause i like to drive my cars, it however will not be a dd until after it is 100% complete, it wont be a work in progress, it will be a project until its finished.

and as far as the last post, like i said i am not new, i am simply asking about the motor. yes a stock block can handle over 500, my theory is to build a system that can handle 1000 but only run it around 600 that way retaining reliability

 

[G]

So what are your actual questions regarding the motor?

 

[4thStroke]

For a small turbo setup, I would keep things simple. There isnt much need to be swapping out the head and intake manifold. You can port the the stock head and the stock IM is sufficient to support the Evo3 16G.

I just put down 350awhp 350tq with my Evo3 16G while retaining the stock head (ported), stock intake manifold, and stock TB.

It put down 413awhp 388tq after that on E85.

It is a 9:1 Mahle/Eagle motor with Comp 272 camshafts and all other supporting mods.

Yes, my motor is overbuilt for a 16G, but it will handle anything I can throw at it and is ready for that big turbo when the time comes.

 

good luck RICK! stay away from dealerships with all that power.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

Quoting G:
So what are your actual questions regarding the motor?



I guess my main issue is specific details. and making sure i have everything right.
the turbo doesnt need to be small and I could get it changed, I just already have a ported evo3 EM and a really sweet o2 and dp that I want ted to keep, the manifold can go with no problem, I was wanting to reuse my dp though.

I am definently putting a good head on it though, if I am building a motor then why not put the evo3 head on it? from what I have learned it is even better then the 2g head.
should I go any higher then 9.0 CR? like maybe 9.5? i think its best to stay under 10 though.

 

[Barnes]

Quote:
Topic: Need Some serious new daily driver discussion



Fixed that for yah.

EDIT: Strikethough fail.
EDIT2: Quote fail

 

[CarRacer]

Converting to an Evo head seems like a lot of work. Why not just put cams, oversized valves, etc in a 1G head?

Edit: Who is going to assemble this motor? I'd discuss this with them. If they can't answer these questions, they shouldn't build your motor.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

the head will bolt right on, the main stud holes just need to be opened up a little, and its a perfect fit, im not keeping a 1g head, if its impossible to find an evo3 then ill go 2g.

the evo3 head has some better flow qualities.

my main issue is piston/rod/block choice

 

[mitsuturbo]

Since when has a 2g or evo3 head been known to flow more? I don't see how that's possible, considering the ports are much smaller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[Terry Posten]

The higher comp pistons will make running on pump gas very hard to do.

Another thing to concider is the turbo. A turbo that can make 600hp will not be a good street choice. It will spoil late and you will have to drive your car hard to enjoy it.

In my opinion, a 20G snail or simular with a Mistu hot side will be good. You don't want a car that does not spoil until 4000 rpms.

For a "Street" car, stay with 450 hp and you will enjoy it much more.

 

[mitsuturbo]

I've always believed that if you have to install a roll bar in your car in order to race it, it's no longer a "street" car. That's my opinion on the cross-over point. This is why my ultimate goal is consistent 11.50's on pump piss.

 

[CarRacer]

Quoting mitsuturbo:
Since when has a 2g or evo3 head been known to flow more? I don't see how that's possible, considering the ports are much smaller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



A respected member recently answered that exact question. 1G vs Evo head.

 

[mitsuturbo]

I read that thread, and it supports my inference that the evo3 or even a 2g head would make LESS power than the stock VR4 head.

I don't know why anyone would want to choke the system up with smaller intake mani and ports on purpose.

 

[mountaineerjeff]

he has kinda started to answer the question, but not complete. my understanding is that the evo head produces much more velocity, the 1g will have more out put because of the im, but i think a evo with a proper smim will be better, ideas?

 

[mitsuturbo]

Let's see.. what have shep, glazar, and rau been running?

1g heads, right?

Why go against the grain. Just use a stock head. Have some port and bowl work done if you want more flow.

I've actually wondered about using valves/guides with a smaller stem in order to facilitate more flow, and a much lighter valvetrain. Isn't one of the advantages of some of the honduh engines that they have incredibly light valvetrains due to smaller diameter valve stems?

 

[Lonewolf64]

Quoting number638:
You want complete reliability?
1)Build a *Stock* but fresh 6-bolt 4g63 with no Balance Shafts.
2)Build your trans/x-fer case to freshness.
3)Replace All your brakes, fluids, remove 4ws, balljoints, tierods, are you getting the point?




This is the truest statement in the thread. 99.5% of guys on this forum that are running forged engines don't need them at all, and would see increased life out of a stock/close to stock engine because of stock cast parts being able to take more miles at the sacrifice of being less resistant to knock and (very) extreme horsepower.

A real life example is turbowop's car. He is running the untouched stock block with ARP headstuds, an FP3052 turbo, meth injection and 30psi. Ask him, the car is relaible, but only because he maintains it properly (see points #2 and #3 from the quoted text).

 

[mountaineerjeff]

ok, the question only pertains to the motor and its reliability, not the rest of the car.
I want to build a street monster. wont be the faster drag car, or autocross car, or a great rally car. but it should perform great in all 3 categories.

It will be too heavy to be the best of anything, plus im driving it on the street so max power isnt an option either. I just want a balance. so Like i stated, My thought process was, if i can build a motor capable of handling 1000hp, but only run it between 5-600 then it should last forever. I think it is more than resonable to expect mid to low 11s. the rest of the car will also have no restrictions on quality either, but thats not part of my questions, I have no problem with the rest of the car.

So why would a factory block be better then a forged one? I might be able to understand what your saying about the pistons, if you think that mitsu ones would be best, then I can get a set of evo3 pistons attached to 1g style rods.