Torque specs- Seriously getting P.O.'d

[fivestardsm]

For some reason, I can not find my other manual for the main cap torque specs, but the one states something like 14.5 flb's and then an additional 90deg turn. The other thing is the pattern.
I looked through lillevo's pdf, but it dosent give the pattern or the spec.

WTF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I know that I am correct on the 49ftlbs, but the whole other manual's spec has thrown my world into turmoil. Hell I am doubting my self on the $3000 motor setting on the stand now, so much, that I am going to tear the pan off and check the main bearings, and re-check the torque on them aswell. I KNOW I DID IT RIGHT.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
God I hate this. I have been doing nothing but dis-asembling/ re-asembling engines for the last 3 months and I am about to shoot my self!!!

This makes #3, and I can not even comprehend the values and specs anymore!! I am f^@kin burn't!!

Anyway, if some one could point out the obvious for me, please do so.

 

[fivestardsm]

Ok, so I tried the way the haynes manual said, just to see what it would be in the overall torque. It listed 18 flb to begin with working from the center out. and then to repeat with a 90* turn to the final torque. So i did the 90* turn and adjusted my TQ wrench to see where the torque would be at the end of the 90* turn. Comes out higher then the 49ftlbs, what it ended up being roughly was 65ftlbs or so. This was confirmed on 2 different blocks. (yes, I took the pan off the other as well)

I don't feel comfortable with this....

I remeber when I did my first head on a 7 bolt and you were supost to go through the 3 step torque with a 1/4 turn and all that. But what I found out on that, is when you finalize your last turn, the torque was almost identical with the 6 bolt torque, they only stepped it that way becasue it was a torque-to-yield situation. Well this isn't tho.
So... well hell I don't know, you tell me.
Why is it so hard to either confirm this, or deny it with the vast power of the internet! I checked everywhere including Vfaq, nothing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I probably just need to get some sleep to refresh my thought process, (yeah, right)
I just can't belive that I am having such a problem with this, This is the 6th or 7th 4g that I have rebuilt and do not remember any problems like this.

 

[TylerAdamson]

Are you using the stock mains or ARP studs?

 

Stock bolts = Torque to value.

ARP's = Torque and untorque 4-5 times, then final torque with the moly-lube.

 

[fivestardsm]

Quoting TylerAdamson:
Are you using the stock mains or ARP studs?




Stock mains and bolts.

I have never had an issue with re-using them, exspecially since this is a virgin motor. As for the torque to yield on the bolts, I have actually reused 7-bolt head bolts as well. As long as they were with in the servicable limits. From my experiance with them, the bolts are good for one rebuild after factory build. After that you get to close to the service limits on them from re-torquing.

 

My FSM says 47-51 ft lbs for the main bolts. Doesn't say anything about torquing them in a specific order, but I do seem to recall reading somewhere (maybe it was in my Haynes manual) that you leave the center cap slightly loose, torque all the others, then tap the end of the crank back and forth before torquing the center cap bolts. But again, the FSM says nothing about that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

You are asking about a 6 bolt motor, right?

 

[fivestardsm]

Ok...So do you think I can sue haynes manual's for faulty information??

This is what I found:





As you can see, these are both haynes manuals, both have the same part# on the manual, with no difference in the print date.
The one shows torque specs, the other shows them for 92 and earlier, and 93 and later.
Why the hell would they do this??
Anyway, I checked all my bolts and they are still with in spec, so I did not stretch them luckily.
Everything is back to the norm now, I think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I need a vacation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

 

I've never liked the parts store manuals like Haynes and Chiltons. I haven't touched one since buying a FSM.

 

[fivestardsm]

Quoting dsm_drew:
My FSM says 47-51 ft lbs for the main bolts. Doesn't say anything about torquing them in a specific order, but I do seem to recall reading somewhere (maybe it was in my Haynes manual) that you leave the center cap slightly loose, torque all the others, then tap the end of the crank back and forth before torquing the center cap bolts. But again, the FSM says nothing about that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

You are asking about a 6 bolt motor, right?







Yeah, I actually snug the center thrust cap down to around 10-12flb and then tap the crank. After that, is when I torque from the center cap out. Am I doing this wrong?? Thats the way I was showed how to do it a long time ago on my chevys, fords, and Mazdas.

 

[fivestardsm]

My shop manual does not have the torque specs, or the assembly steps in it tho. So I have always used the haynes.

 

Yeah, like I said, my FSM says nothing about torquing in steps or any specific pattern. I would think that if it was so important Mitsubishi would have said so in their manual, although doing it that way certainly wouldn't hurt anything either. The torque specs are given on the exploded diagram, but not in the list of torque specs.

I've noticed that a lot of what Haynes puts in their manuals for engine rebuilds is the same for all their manuals of any make. I used to have an Oldsmobile manual of theirs too, and most of the text and pics were the same between the Olds manual and the Mitsu manual. Of course a lot of things in rebuilds are common among all motors, I just trust the more specific info of the FSM.

 

[iceman69510]

Ok, a 6-bolt does not have the 1/4 turn torque at the end on either the head or main bolts. You just torque them to factory specs. The part about checking the bolts for stretch does not apply to a 6 bolt either.

The Haynes manual (or whoever you are referencing) lists 92 and earlier (6 bolt) and 93 and later (7 bolt) for specifically that reason. The 7 bolt engines use the torque to stretch (I prefer that over calling them torque-to-yield) that require the additional 90* turn on the mains, and two 90* turns on the head bolts.

Torquing sequence on a 6-bolt main is not so critical. I would work each group (of 4 bolts for each joint cap, 2 bolts for the center and ends) at the same time, and work from the center out. I would have to check my factory engine manual to see if it says anything, as I can't remember.

 

[fivestardsm]

The checking for specs was mearly to make sure that I did not stretch them because I did a torque test, and went over the factory spec. because there is a chance that I could have stretched them. I have seen 6 bolt head bolts stretched because of over torque. I had to remove them with a breaker bar and cheater pipe! Needless to say, they were junk and got tossed in the scrap. Other than that, I have never had an issue with them being stretched, but I still check the demensions anyway.

As for the manual, I posted a pic above that was the lead contributer to my confusion, that and the cleaner fumes and lack of sleep. the 2 manuals are the exact same ones, but one has the correct info for the 6 bolt, and the other only has it listed for the 7 bolt.. Go figure.

As for the pattern, again, I was just confusing my self in the discription, It does say to work from the center out, as mentioned in the second pic that I posted up.

So I would like to take this oportunity to say thank you for all who replyed, and appologize for letting my ignorance get the best of me. Thank you for the suport tho.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif