Building a parts list for my motor build...

[manikbastrd]

The build is for a replacement bottom end for my car. I have a local machine shop who will do all the machine work, and do ring gaps. He is actually a buddy of mine so he will probably oversee me assembling the block itself (not my first but I am not super confident). Build is for a bottom end that will handle up to 700HP. I am only really shooting for 500-600 AWHP (gotta be able to beat my buddies evoX with 540AWHP), but want to have it good to go, and not have to worry about anything (I have not decided on a turbo yet, but I do have a head built). I thought about going stroker or destroker but can't come up with a great reason to do either. List is as follows, please chime in if you see something bad or that I should reconsider...

Stuff I need stilledited)
Good core for bottom end w/Crank
Mahle Powerpak 9.0:1
Carillo Rods
ARP Main studs
Clevite 77 main and rod bearings
New Mitsu oil pump case and gears
New mitsu water pump
Balance shaft delete kit
Fluidampr harmonic balancer
Haven't decided on HG yet...Thinking Mitsu MLS or Cometic

Things I have:
ARP Head studs
New Mitsu timing components
Stock Timing belt
7bolt head bored for 6 bolt studs
-1mm overbored valves
-ported all the way around
-HKS 272/272
-New Topline revised lifters
-Manley Springs and retainers
JMF intake manifold
Stock 1g TB
FP exhaust manifold
Turbo and o2 housing TBD

Thanks in advance! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif
-Manik

 

[BENE38A]

do the arp mains, maybe 9.0.1 comp piston

 

[362Ryan]

I would spring for the arp mains and a kiggly girdle as well.

 

[Jesus_Negros]

2.2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

 

[Kibby]

Ive been eyeballin the hta86. Ive seen some good numbers on pump. Even at low boost levels.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting BENE38A:
do the arp mains, maybe 9.0.1 comp piston



Why 9.0 rather than keeping it low?

Also, Why kiggly main girdle?

I pretty much decided to get the ARP mains as well. No point in cheaping out at this point.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting Turbro_Negro:
2.2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif



It seems like any stroker or destroker kit will leave me with a less than optimal rod angle. I don't want to rev past 8K really since that is where the HKS 272 really drop off anyway, but I want to maintain as much longevity int he engine as possible. I will be breaking it in with my E316g most likely.

 

[CutlassJim]

A 2.2 gives you a better rod angle than a 2.0 which already has what is considered the "optimum" rod angle. 2.2 good to like 11,000 rpm. Then you just need a clutch and a trans to shift at that speed. It's a viscous money cycle.

 

[manikbastrd]

Yeah, T_Negro was just berating me via Text about how I should go Destroker for the rod angle, for this build though I want to Keep it Simple Stupid, and not spend a thousand bucks on a crank haha.

 

[tektic]

Quoting CutlassJim:
A 2.2 gives you a better rod angle than a 2.0 which already has what is considered the "optimum" rod angle. 2.2 good to like 11,000 rpm. Then you just need a clutch and a trans to shift at that speed. It's a viscous money cycle.



As you describe this is a destroked 2.4l block.
I have a stroked 2.2 from a 2.0 block. I am very happy with the 94mm eagle crank.cost about 550. It feels completely different than a stock setup with the same turbo. Power everywhere been shifting above 7 and it feels early. The 9:1 compression and the fast spooling turbo and cyclone help too.


P.s. keep your balance shafts! I wish I did.

For a simple build get some evo pistons or npr with a mhi head gasket and the stock rods modified. That would be kissing it.

 

[manikbastrd]

Why do you say you wish you kept your balance shaft? I am switching to a Fluidampr Harmonic balancer which should help out with vibration and balance.

 

[BENE38A]

9.0.1 is not a huge jump in the grand scale, still good to tune on pump gas. More compression less boost as apposed to lower compression more boost, higher compression less turbo lag be alot nicer than big laggy high boosting turbos.

 

[SSGdave]

Quoting manikbastrd:
Quoting Turbro_Negro:
2.2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif



It seems like any stroker or destroker kit will leave me with a less than optimal rod angle. I don't want to rev past 8K really since that is where the HKS 272 really drop off anyway, but I want to maintain as much longevity int he engine as possible. I will be breaking it in with my E316g most likely.



the 2.1 is optimal. (im not even sure if these kits exsist anymore) But dollar to gain is really not that great, UNLESS you are planning to go rev high. And I mean HIGH. But you cant go wrong with a 2.0 under 9k rpm
Save the money and use it on good inturnals. Honestly I would love to hear what a 4G63 sounds like spinning over 10k /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif

 

[tektic]

Quoting manikbastrd:
Why do you say you wish you kept your balance shaft? I am switching to a Fluidampr Harmonic balancer which should help out with vibration and balance.



This is a nice part, but doesn't do the same thing as a counter balanced shaft. If this car will be daily driven and you value smooth running and a long service life consider keeping this system intact. I wish I used a heaver flywheel too. Research it a little more before you make up your mind. I'm just telling you how I would critique my own build choices.

 

[prove_it]

I've heard some people saying that a heavier flywheel is better on a big turbo, it helps with spool. In theory yea, but hard to say if it's true.

What about your trans? Can it take the power?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

^This. You better set aside a stack of cash for a trans that can hold that kind of power. For the money, you'd be better off going auto at that power level.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting tektic:
Quoting manikbastrd:
Why do you say you wish you kept your balance shaft? I am switching to a Fluidampr Harmonic balancer which should help out with vibration and balance.



This is a nice part, but doesn't do the same thing as a counter balanced shaft. If this car will be daily driven and you value smooth running and a long service life consider keeping this system intact. I wish I used a heaver flywheel too. Research it a little more before you make up your mind. I'm just telling you how I would critique my own build choices.



Understood. I am keeping my stock flywheel. I just had it turned and threw on a new clutch. I had a lightweight wheel on for a week and hated it. It was nice to rev quickly but was not worth the tradeoff.

I haven't made up my mind on balance shafts yet, but I am worried about the longevity of the belt. I have heard that leaving the BS in can be a risk in a higher HP car, and that it lowers your oil pressure. I don't know all the details and don't claim to, but I would be happy to hear opinions and valid data on the subject.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
^This. You better set aside a stack of cash for a trans that can hold that kind of power. For the money, you'd be better off going auto at that power level.



I agree. First thing I am doing (before putting in this motor that I plan to build is getting a jack's trans. The road Race ultimate ratio HD, with micropolish and 4 spider gears. If that breaks, I might consider Auto, but under 600 I know I can have a std (built) trans. My buddy Chris (keagy) ran his purple 1g for a couple seasons with 700 plus on a built trans with no problems, and as previously mentioned, for now I only plan to be able to beat a 540 AWHP/380Tq EvoX (he makes no torques because he is scared of his stock internals). It was only once chris got up to 800+ hp that he had issues with his Trans exploding gears.

 

[362Ryan]

Quoting manikbastrd:
Quoting BENE38A:
do the arp mains, maybe 9.0.1 comp piston



Why 9.0 rather than keeping it low?

Also, Why kiggly main girdle?

I pretty much decided to get the ARP mains as well. No point in cheaping out at this point.



Added strength. Tying the mains together will only add rigidity to the lower block and longevity to your build.

Also I would consider adding displacement as well, if you plan on this being a street car.

 

[ghostinthevr4]

^He's right a girdle would stop the block from flexing, yes I said flexing cause that's what it will do at high rpm's. 2.2 liter would be my next build if I can afford it Magnus and English have great results and so have other people on the streets, if cost is an issue a 2.0 will suffice.

If your planning on racing this thing I would not leave the balance shaft, it's designed to stop vibration that's it! It's a fraction the size of the timing belt and spins double maybe 4 times the amount of the timing belt. Turbo Negro is not berating you it's in your head, oh yeah the 3586 get's my vote based on dyno graph's that I have seen.

Just my 0.02 cent's!