preparing for shootout and OH NO timing locked at 5* advance

[IncorpoRatedX]

So you may or may not know my wagon, 4G63T RWD swap, stock DSM harness, stock DSM ecu, stock DSM electronics

went out and hooked up the logger today because I've had a sneaking suspscion that the CEL was on, since i dont have one hooked up, i didnt have a means of knowing. I did however feel like the car had timing retard in boost, i had been not getting on it since the swap, i mean, i barely ever get into the throttle but the few times i have, i have though "this thing is gutless" and it feels like timing retard, well first i thought it was the lifter tick, which turned out to be the hydraulic lifter failed. replaced that, no more tick/rattle, still no guts.


Hooked the logger up and it shows my timing at idle to be 5* seems normal enough, rev the engine and the timing doesnt move, this concerns me.

take it out for a drive, timing is LOCKED, FROZE, SIEZED at 5* all through the RPM band, regardless of TPS, regardless of boost level.

I'm supposed to drive this car to shoot out next weekend, so of course now im bugging out.

I unhooked all the sh*t and checked the base timing diag port under the hood, it had connectivity to ground for some reason! i must have screwed something up in the wiring harness when i made it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

So i went to the ECU, pin 12, Ignition timing adjust and cut the wire, figure i can do a short hand diag and see if that fixes the problem

start it back up, STILL LOCKED AT 5*


another weird thing:

When the car is off but the MPI switch is on, fuel pump running, ECU powered, (my ecu and stuff isnt hooked to key, just a switch) i have code 22, CAS

however if the car is running, the code is not active, just stored, i assume it has something to do with how im powering the ECU but the engine isnt turning. IDK, im dyin here.

Anyone have any help, i will try to swap the CAS this week but it's on the back of the engine against the firewall, soooo.... that'll be fun....

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

oh btw, im using MMCD to log, set to DSM, baud is set correct, verified this thing is working on my all stock VR4, timing advances correctly on that car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif

 

[vr4play]

Sounds like the timing connector is grounded. I had my car on the dyno and we set the timing and I forgot to un-ground the timing connector and the timing stayed at 5 and it had no power. Unhooked it and bam, back to normal.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

yeah i cut that wire at the ECU just to be sure that it's not grounded.

That wire you ground under the hood goes to ECU pin 12, i snipped that thing as a means of eliminating possibilities... thanks, but that's not the issue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

 

[DynastyLCD]

Perhaps try another ecu? Possibly internally shorted unless you have bent pins in the connector. I mean, what else could it be?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

tried another, good working ECU, got the same code with the car off, no code with the car running, 5* flat line of timing.

took my all stock VR4 out and logged it, did some good pulls, great amounts of timing.

 

[vr4play]

I would ck the wiring going to the cas. You should not get a code with it on and not running. Something isn't right with that. Maybe the cas is going bad.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

I've got to find some solid evidence for the CAS being bad before im willing to screw with removing it! I'll check the wiring for power, good ground and continuity to the ecu for the two signal wires.

it's literally against the firewall so i can't just swap it out easy as pie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

 

[raptorWagon]

As in, while it does clear his firewall, not enough room to pull the sucker out without some more work.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Alright this is what I've come up with thus far:


Key on "run" Code 22 is active
wagon running code 22 is stored, not active

CAS wiring is getting 12v as it should, continuity to ground and 5v where it should

Swapped ECU's with two known working ones, same problem

unplugged the CAS and plugged in a known working blacktop, turned key to run, code 22 appeared, cleared codes, scanned again, code 22 active again.

plugged old cas back in, cleared code, scanned again, code 22 active again.

started car, code 22 stored but not active.

Pin 12 on the ECU is the plug under the hood that you ground in order to LOCK the timing so you can set the base timing, the car behaves like that wire is grounded but I've CUT that wire at the ECU with about 3 inches of lead so I can still use it, thus eliminating it's ability to ground somewhere in the wiring harness.

BISS adjustment wire connects to pin 10 of the diag port, which is what gets grounded out when the logger is attached, so it's not locking timing as far as i can tell.

WHAT ELSE COULD LOCK TIMING??

Does not advance, does not retard, if i set it to 8* its locked at 8* from idle to redline, if i set it to 10* ITS LOCKED; you get the point. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I run 93 always and im running 7psi, if i can't fix it before shoot out I'll advance it to 10* and drive it to ohio like that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

 

[vr4play]

I didn't know if you had this info so here you go. click

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Yup I spent the morning going over all of that. Thanks though.

 

[992gnt]

Can you verify where the timing is at via a timing light?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Yup, 5* doesn't move

 

[992gnt]

I've had two 1g's, but never did any ecu work on them (except caps), so I'm just throwing things out here... Check to see if your snipped wire on pin 12 has continuity to ground? Try another logger cable? Are you seeing any knock? What sensors feed into the ECU to allow advance, could one of those be grounded?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

im seeing very minimal counts of knock (like 1-2) here and there, but nothing to warrant major timing lock out.


So here's some info:

92 DSM harness
92 DSM ECU
stock sensors all over with the exception of:

MAFT with 3 inch GM MAF which means:
ATS (Air temperature signal, fixed at 80 degrees)
BARO (Barometric pressure signal, fixed at 3.9 volts)

I've tried swapping all kinds of crap, now im going to try putting a 1G DSM MAF on the car and see where that takes me.

 

[992gnt]

Bad ECT sensor?

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

fixed it. diagram coming momentarily.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

So i had a wire powered that should not be powered while running, apparently while cranking this wire should get power, my guess is that i've been driving it with the ECU thinking it's "cranking" to start! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

see the orange circle for the wire i had switched 12v running to, when the car was running this wire was getting 12v and it shouldnt have been, now i get mad timing! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

 

[992gnt]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif