Hard block no water pump

[Terrance362]

The plan is to run a hard block and fill the block and only run coolant through the head. I have looked online for a little info but I have not found anything. I see were people are running a electric water pumps, but I just want a little more info so if anyone can shine some light on this please do.

 

[rdomeck]

Why?

 

[Terrance362]

why not. I am just looking for answers. I am not trying to be rude.

 

[Kentstatetsi]

Jay Racing sells fittings to only run coolant through the head. Any water pump with AN adapters would be fine.

 

[rdomeck]

Quoting Terrance362:
why not. I am just looking for answers. I am not trying to be rude.



Still why? Why would you want to take cooling away from the block? That really makes no sense to me! And this would require a very special head gasket that blocks all the passages to the block. Not to mention all the plumbing and external water pump......This would be so much work and to have less cooling? Just doesn't make sense as to why?

What is the problem your trying to fix?

 

[SleepinGVR4]

Most of the guys that fill or half fill the block do it to make it stronger for high HP applications.

 

[iceman69510]

Exactly. He is planning on building a high HP engine, not street.

 

[curtis]

Well there's an alternative to this. If you look at an engine on the stand there is like 11 or 9 can't remember freeze plugs on the block and head. If you watch ebay you can pick up the screw in pipe plugs and a tap to just install the plugs. Theres different designs but I bought the internal drive. Takes like a 3/4 inch allen head to tighten them down and others have a 1/2 inch drive so all you need is a ratchet. Bought the tap at a mom and pop hardware store for like 25 bucks and the plugs were like 9.99 and 10 bucks shipping. Plugs are usually like 10 each and the tap is like 125. With some looking around you can get them cheap. Hotrodders have been doing this for decades and yes it helps. The freeze plugs are actually there for the casting process. No reason to physically have that many weak ass plugs in a block. By installing the screw in plugs your strengthening everything and usually after its done you have everything honed and checked for straightness. Below is pictures and you can google search and read about all this.

pictures

 

[Terrance362]

Quoting rdomeck:
Quoting Terrance362:
why not. I am just looking for answers. I am not trying to be rude.



Still why? Why would you want to take cooling away from the block? That really makes no sense to me! And this would require a very special head gasket that blocks all the passages to the block. Not to mention all the plumbing and external water pump......This would be so much work and to have less cooling? Just doesn't make sense as to why?

What is the problem your trying to fix?


Hey I am trying to make 900 or so with this engine. I have everything else done to a drage spec. The car is only gonna see the track. I want to put as much boost as I can hold. The engine is jays main cap, arp's, kigggly girdle, howard I beam rods, wesico 1400 HD slugs.

 

[EMX5636]

Well you don't NEED to fill the block for 900hp. But if you really want to, I'll get some info. A buddy of mine just did his block for a 1000-1200hp full drag build, and I know he did a ton of research. I know he is running the Jay Racing block-off plate. Do you have an email maybe I could just have him get in touch with you with his opinions.

Edit- did some research on DSMLink, most guys that are filling are doing a half-fill to the bottom of the waterpump. Then you can still run the stock pump, and just run a big oil cooler on a '90 OFH. Anywhere between 800-1000whp it could be a good idea.

 

[James]

Everyone knows if your aspirations are 900. You're going to end up with 1000 plus before you're done lol

 

[donniekak]

Are you going to run on methanol?

 

[Terrance362]

I have not really got into meth yet. I am doing a little research on it.
I did order the fitting from jays racing

 

[rdomeck]

I'm still not getting it......Take away a bunch of cooling to make the block how much stronger? 10% and that's a big maybe......And you loose a bunch of cooling! Seems like there would be a much different way to go and be a lot safer. Plugs threaded in were the casting plugs go in I guess would be a start......

Filling the block just seems like 10 steps in the wrong direction.

 

[EMX5636]

You aren't getting it because you are still running a 16G. I'm not poking fun, and this mod ISN'T for almost everyone, but when you think you need it, you probably do.

Look into most of the 1000+HP builds on EvoM or Tuners/Link etc... Almost all have at least a half filled or a full filled block. In 1/4mile passes, the steel block barely heats up enough to matter. The head still needs coolant however. One of the biggest failures above 900whp is cracking cylinders, hence the need for added strength. Would I try to run it on the street, probably not (even though some guys do) but he isn't building a street car. I "shouldn't" be running aluminum rods on the street, but their performance so far has been amazing. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Back on topic though. If you're dead set on running an electric waterpump, go full fill. I think for your power goals, the simplicity of a half-fill to the bottom of the stock waterpump would be sufficient. You could then get the AN pump outlet and do your cooling system as if it were fairly stock.

 

[EMX5636]

Quoting curtis:
Well there's an alternative to this. If you look at an engine on the stand there is like 11 or 9 can't remember freeze plugs on the block and head. If you watch ebay you can pick up the screw in pipe plugs and a tap to just install the plugs.



My only concern with this, is make sure you try to match materials. I wouldn't want to use the pretty aluminum ones in a steel block, and vice-versa. I know some of the older aluminum heads with steel plugs would drip coolant or some even cracked the head casting because of the dissimilar metal expansion.

Other than that, it couldn't hurt to try them.

Terrance, I think you really should look into methanol. You'll have some heavy cost in the fuel system up front, but it will help out with your block fill idea, and your other intercooler thread. You wouldn't need one at all. Just my honest suggestion.

 

[Terrance362]

Quoting EMX5636:
You aren't getting it because you are still running a 16G. I'm not poking fun, and this mod ISN'T for almost everyone, but when you think you need it, you probably do.

Look into most of the 1000+HP builds on EvoM or Tuners/Link etc... Almost all have at least a half filled or a full filled block. In 1/4mile passes, the steel block barely heats up enough to matter. The head still needs coolant however. One of the biggest failures above 900whp is cracking cylinders, hence the need for added strength. Would I try to run it on the street, probably not (even though some guys do) but he isn't building a street car. I "shouldn't" be running aluminum rods on the street, but their performance so far has been amazing. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Back on topic though. If you're dead set on running an electric waterpump, go full fill. I think for your power goals, the simplicity of a half-fill to the bottom of the stock waterpump would be sufficient. You could then get the AN pump outlet and do your cooling system as if it were fairly stock.


Thank you for shining a little light on that for me.

 

[Terrance362]

Your talking about direct port meth injection? Give me some links. I have looked a little but I have not really found to much on it

 

[EMX5636]

No, I'm talking about running the car on Methanol. No pump/race fuel, E85 etc. Injectors are about $2k IIRC. But the fuel is so cold that it doesn't require an IC and helps limit engine temps at all times.

There are tons of more info, but here's a short thread from EvoM.

Link

 

[JNR]

Don't they make a properly designed billet steel block to handle this sort of power? Just seems odd having to fill the coolant passages (like a band aid), but if it's a dedicated "race car" and doing this on a budget, sounds like it'll work; just don't run it past what is necessary for your run.