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failed smog

b00st33d

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
239
Location
Central, CA
I just failed my smog test today....

below are the numbers:

idle (815 rpm): HC 139 PPM (120 PPM max), CO 0.26% (1.00% max)
2435 rpm: HC 77 PPM (140 PPM max), CO 0.45% (1.00% max)

I am looking for some tips and what to test to lower the HC's on idle. The car has new spark plugs (BPR6ES) gapped @ .030. Engine oil is between 1500-2000 miles synthetic. The car has tubular O2 housing and 3" catback (aftermarket cat converter). TIA
 
Last edited:

JNR

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
9,814
Location
ca
here's some good tipsto reduce HC...be aware though that sometimes reducing that will increase other things, but you look like you're in decent shape there. If everything else checks out on your timing and ignition stuff, I wonder if the cat is just too lenient, or something isn't hooked up/not functioning properly...forgot what effect the EGR has on the HC, but sometimes those get a lot of crud built up and imagine they don't work well.

another tip I've heard is to run 87 octane and make sure the car is warmed up real good before testing.

Aren't the stock plugs an '8' heat range, btw? It's been awhile, but thought that was the stocker type and 7 was one colder...6 would be 2 colder and *could* be contributing...the gap also seems pretty high, so it could be taxing your ignition enough to not work 100%.

PS - did they give you any hassle about the aftermarket cat? You have anything else not stock? I ask because I too have aftermarket converter (but also a lot of other questionable things for visual) and wonder how they react to those. On OBDII I know you can't have aftermarket cat in commifornia, so hopefully that does not apply to ours (OBDI).
 
Last edited:

b00st33d

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Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
239
Location
Central, CA
I was actually reading the same article after I posted here. I think I cleaned up the EGR 2 1/2 years ago and remove all the crud but I will check it again. I think the numbering in the spark plugs are the other way around, I will double check on that.
I have been smogging my cars to only one guy and he never even mentioned anything about my cat or my exhaust. The rest of my engine bay is stock other than the items that are mentioned. Thanks for the fast reply.
 

FlyingEagle

Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Messages
1,635
Location
THE Ottawa
"BPR6ES" plugs are stock.
If you can sway the guy testing the car, here is what passed my car - take idle out of the equation.
We have a 40KMH roll - steady throttle/speed, then right back down to idle. 60-90 seconds for each.
In order to get my lumpy cams out of the equation, as confirmed when I could roller test the car on the work machine, we had to eliminate idle.
So, we did the 40 KMH roll, then as the engine comes back down/wants to steady on idle, the tester must press the gas pedal to keep the car between idle and 1200 RPM.
The tester kept is steady and the numbers were phenomenally clean. I have all Federal emissions hooked up and an aftermarket CAT that is one year old now.
I run BPR7ES plugs and 91-94 Octane. Car was warmed up before hand and not idled for any period of time because it would pile up the cat with HC = lumpy idle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Food for thought.
 

JNR

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Apr 23, 2004
Messages
9,814
Location
ca
thanks for the clarification on the plug # as 6 being stock; been awhile since I replaced them but remember the PO putting two heat range colder and hence the 8, so had it the other way around.

Anyhow, good luck on the smog and it sucks that you can't have a 'check' test done after changes, where it doesn't go to the state cpu.
 

dsm10o0

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Jun 16, 2010
Messages
680
Location
San Jose CA
Run straight 87 octane drive it hard on the freeway to heat up the cat real well. Also, use seafoam on the motor and gas. And if you have access to e85, mix 2 or something gallons with the 87. This is how i got 705 pass legally.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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Jul 31, 2010
Messages
984
Location
North county San Diego
with your reading retarding the timing a couple degrees will do the trick. don't go straight e85, if you do go that rout just a couple gal to a tank. two or three bottles of "Heat" in the yellow bottle not the red will have the same effect.
 

alansupra94

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Mar 3, 2010
Messages
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Location
Wayne,NJ
Quoting SouthCaliVR4:
with your reading retarding the timing a couple degrees will do the trick. don't go straight e85, if you do go that rout just a couple gal to a tank. two or three bottles of "Heat" in the yellow bottle not the red will have the same effect.



Will definitely give this a try after getting my new turbocharger.
 

004tsi

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Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
197
Location
vancouver, wa
My car has 3inch turbo back exhaust with no cat and I pass emissions every two years by cranking the timing back as far as go. I wouldn't drive it much like this I do it in the parking lot near the emissions place. I don't have the paper in front of me but iirc its under 100ppm hc at idle
 

JNR

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Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
9,814
Location
ca
Interesting...(yellow) Heet is 99% methanol? click for MSDS. Guess they make Iso-Heet (Red) now that is the isopropyl version; always thought that's what regular Heet was for some reason and maybe they changed it...no matter, that is good to know!

If the idea of running 87 (lower) octane helps for a smog test, how would methanol help then, being it's a higher equivalent octane? Just curious on how that works...
 

SouthCaliVR4

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Jul 31, 2010
Messages
984
Location
North county San Diego
It burns in a different chem spectrum. so while it really can raise emissions just not the ones they test for. Tail pipe test is like a drug test on people. If you test someone for weed & they're on cocaine they still test clean.
 

JNR

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Apr 23, 2004
Messages
9,814
Location
ca
Ah OK, makes sense if that's the case and sounds like a good pointer if it works!
 

4thStroke

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
Quoting 004tsi:
My car has 3inch turbo back exhaust with no cat and I pass emissions every two years by cranking the timing back as far as go. I wouldn't drive it much like this I do it in the parking lot near the emissions place. I don't have the paper in front of me but iirc its under 100ppm hc at idle



Did you get help from Luke on this?

I bet we both retard our timing and make other adjustments in the same parking lot.
 

RayH

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Joined
Apr 9, 2001
Messages
2,703
Location
NJ
The main reason I got the SAFC. Just lean it out in the rpms that they test at and it passes everytime.
 

SouthCaliVR4

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Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
984
Location
North county San Diego
You affect the timing through the safc as well. It's part of the air delivery curve when you trick the ecu to see different airflow rates it switches timing maps along with. so leaning it out retards timing in the ecu.
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
Quoting b00st33d:
I just failed my smog test today....

below are the numbers:

idle (815 rpm): HC 139 PPM (120 PPM max), CO 0.26% (1.00% max)
2435 rpm: HC 77 PPM (140 PPM max), CO 0.45% (1.00% max)

I am looking for some tips and what to test to lower the HC's on idle. The car has new spark plugs (BPR6ES) gapped @ .030. Engine oil is between 1500-2000 miles synthetic. The car has tubular O2 housing and 3" catback (aftermarket cat converter). TIA




Do you have a logger?

Knowing the fuel trims would tell a tale, as would knowing the raw o2 values.

... anything else is just "guessing".



Absent any real information, if I had to "guess", I'd say it's possible you have a small vacuum leak ... perhaps the injector seals at the base of the injector, or around the biss screw ...


but guessing won't fix a damn thing.

Gathering the pertinent data will allow you to make informed decisions/changes.


Quote:
You affect the timing through the safc as well. It's part of the air delivery curve when you trick the ecu to see different airflow rates it switches timing maps along with. so leaning it out retards timing in the ecu.



adjusting an safc/piggyback device in an attempt to "lean" it out advances the timing.

... and since the ecu will be in closed loop, it will automatically compensate the afr for the lie you're telling it, leaving you back where you started on the afr ... but with advanced timing.

... that will not help your situation.




My suggestion would be to log the vehicle, paying close attention to the o2 values

Post up what you find.

especially the idle values, (you may not be cycling at idle)

I'd also check/verify/adjust your biss settings and actual timing (go to vfaq for the procedures)

You're idling under the target values for a vr-4, and that won't help your situation.



And finally, I'd check/verify the tps and maf functions (especially the baro and iat)


If the car is even close to stock, it *should* easily pass your emission standards without any fudging if everything is working order.

Depending on the level of your modifications, even heavily modified cars will pass if the tune is correct.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cliffs.gif

If you're running a factory vr-4 e-prom ecu, it's set to idle at 850rpm.

It's a little known fact that the ecu tosses additional timing at a low idle (in addition to moving the iac,) so your low idle speed is hurting you much more than you would think.


... find out why it's idling at a lower rpm, fix that problem, and you're probably golden.
 

004tsi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
197
Location
vancouver, wa
Quoting 4thStroke:
Quoting 004tsi:
My car has 3inch turbo back exhaust with no cat and I pass emissions every two years by cranking the timing back as far as go. I wouldn't drive it much like this I do it in the parking lot near the emissions place. I don't have the paper in front of me but iirc its under 100ppm hc at idle



Did you get help from Luke on this?

I bet we both retard our timing and make other adjustments in the same parking lot.


No I had to do it with my old talon before the vr4. And yes probably the same lot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
^^^ Do you guys have to run on the dyno or is it a stationary tailpipe test only?
 
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