electrical gurus, plz double check my work...

[turbowop]

Because I'm installing ECMlink, I have to rewire my methanol injection setup. Reason being, the trigger wire on the old Maftpro setup was a 12v input to switch to secondary fuel/timing maps and ECMlink requires a switched ground input on the idle switch input to switch to secondary fuel/timing maps.

I could just use a second relay to switch polarity on one 12v output wire, but I don't want to introduce more failure points into the system. I'd like to keep with one relay so that if it goes bad, the whole system shuts down.

I need to get the car up and running this weekend so that I can drive it around and get a base tune going so that I can drive 2.5hrs to English Racing and have Aaron and Lucas tune the car on their dyno. I've already got the car started, but I can't drive it until I finish this wiring and get the carpet and seats back in. I wanna get it right the first time, yanno?

Please excuse my hand-drawn diagrams. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

This is a pieced together English Racing meth kit. If you're wondering, the resistor is so that the pump doesn't see full 12v. I guess it's not good for the pump to see that much voltage over time and it's not required anyway, as per Lucas' directions. Or it was too much pressure output. I can't remember. Whatever it was, using the resistor was his tried and true method to this setup so there it is. The 10psi Hobbs switch completes the Pwr/Eco switch circuit, allowing power to flow through the relay to power the meth pump and also sends 12v to the 60psi Hobbs switch. Once that switch sees 60psi meth pressure, it allows 12v to flow the two-stage boost controller to raise boost, as well as to the Maftpro to switch to the secondary fuel/timing map and sends power to the LED to let me know meth is spraying. If that 60psi Hobbs doesn't see meth pressure due to a clog or empty tank, everything reverts back to lower boost and regular fuel/timing maps, hopefully saving me from ending up with a hole in the engine block.

Old setup:




New setup (I think):




Did I correctly draw the new diagram? Thanks!

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Looks straight to me. The only thing I see is that the line between terminal 85 and the 10PSI Hobbs switch would actually be a ground circuit instead of a power circuit like you drew on your diagram. Does't really matter though, because it will still work; it's just drawn wrong.

-Eco/Power switch acts as an arming switch and provides 12v to 86; coil of Bosch relay.
-When manifold sees 10PSI boost pressure the 10PSI Hobbs switch completes the Bosch relay's coil path to ground, activating the Bosch relay and meth pump.
-Meth pump pumps, and when 60PSI Hobbs switch sees 60PSI, it then completes the path to ground for the 2 stage boost controller, meth LED, and ECU; all of which have to go to ground back through the Bosch relay. The boost controller, meth LED, and ECU would be ground side switched, ultimately reaching your goal by providing your ECU's idle switch circuit with the ground signal it is looking for.

Hopefully what I said sounds right, and mirrors pretty much what you explained. Just wanted to bounce my understanding off you to double check what you already know. The circuit looks sound to me. I can't think of a more simple way to make this work given the safety features this circuit provides. Honestly, I'm probably going to use this myself when I install the snow performance meth kit I picked up. Are you using any kind of progression for your meth injection, or is it fixed? I'm interested in how you have the vacuum routing set up for your 2 stake BC, and at what boost levels you are tuning your meth injection to. Some more info on what kind of meth pressures, boost pressures and nozzle sizes you are using would be cool when you have time. Also, do you know about how much voltage is getting to the pump with the resistor in line? Hope this helps man.

 

[turbowop]

You're totally right on the drawing of the ground circuit off terminal 85. I didn't notice that. But yeah, I guess it's only drawn wrong and works the way it is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's not a progressive setup. It's fixed to start spraying through an M10 nozzle at 10psi, but it works really well for solid drag/street/fun WOT pulls. I'm not sure if it would work well on a roadcourse though. I've had the system installed since '06. No issues with it yet. It's a pretty simple system.

I use a TurboXS two-stage MBC. Vacuum routing like any other normal MBC. Mine gets its boost source from the upper intercooler pipe. The switchover is done internally via the MBC itself, probably through a small relay? My boost settings at the moment are 22psi for 92psi pump gas (Eco), and when methanol is spraying it's set for 30psi (Pwr). This may all change next Friday when the car gets tuned on the dyno. I also might install a bigger methanol nozzle. We'll see though. With the M10 I can still stutterbox the car without any adverse effects. If I start spraying a lot more meth, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to stutterbox or NLTS since both of those features cut fuel to limit the revs, and with methanol spraying that would create a lean condition that could be catastrophic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noes.gif

I'll measure how much voltage the meth pump gets after the resistor this weekend. I was planning to do that anyway because I'm curious.

 

[turbowop]

After looking over this again and having GST correct my original diagram's terminal 85 being a ground, I think I found an easier way. I can just pull the ground from that and keep my pump wiring the way it is. Even though the ground circuit won't be run through the relay, the safety still works because if the 60psi Hobbs switch doesn't see 60psi meth pressure, it won't flow the ground signal to the boost controller, LED, or ECU. This means I only have to change a couple of things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here is the new diagram:




I think this will be the easiest way. Anybody else see a problem with it?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Yep, still looks legit to me man. I'm not really fimiliar with the actual physical wiring configuration you got going on, but I does seem like less changes would have to be made with the last diagram you drew. Essentially, the only thing you are changing is where in the circuit the 60PSI Hobbs switch is going to ground. Whichever point is easier to T into would be where I would make the connection. Either way, the 60PSI Hobbs switch can't go to ground until the 10PSI switch is activated in both diagrams you drew. So you are still good to go with the last diagram from everything I can see.

As far as the resistor goes, I would bet that it is to reduce pump pressure. I can't imagine that the pump seeing a full 12v would hurt it, but then again I have been wrong before. Instead of going with a bigger nozzle though, maybe you could remove the resistor and see what kind of pressure you are getting at the nozzle with a full 12v going to the pump. With that you could recalculate your flow through the M10 nozzle, and could possibly be able to increase flow enough to net even need a bigger nozzle. All that being said, that's a lot of work, and even worse a lot of math and sh*t. Personally if I knew what the pump pressure with the current setup was, I would just change the nozzle making it way easier to calculate flow by simply switching to a bigger nozzle. Either way, I agree more meth delivery should definitely be in order so you can turn up the boost a tad bit.

Your meth setup sounds solid. I never really thought of having a separate meth map and to switch over when the setup is spraying. Genius if you think about it though, because of how safe it is. Again, this is another idea I may steal from you. Whatever you do, you have to make sure they hook you up with a good tune that utilizes the meth to it's full potential. So many people don't even consider doing meth or water injection on their cars. I was one of them until I saw first hand the kind of boost levels that can be safely run on pump gas. For guys like me who don't really want to take the E85 step, that's the only way to go IMO. Have you thought of getting a progressive meth setup? Like I mentioned, I got an awesome deal on a Snow Performance stage 2 boost cooler kit used from some guy on Tooners. It has a progressive controller that basically uses a boost signal input to adjust pump voltage to have a linear increase in nozzle pressure. You are able to select the boost level the pump starts to pump at, and the final boost pressure. The controller basically then starts pumping at low pressure at your selected start boost pressure, and increases pump voltage progressively up until it sees the full boost you set, at which point it's pumping at full pressure. Pretty bad ass setup, and I'm excited to play with it. Just like anything else though, a good meth setup is one that is fine-tuned and setup for your specific application. You definitely need dyno time to do this IMO. Hopefully you have time to play with your system while the car is on the dyno. Even with the single stage, if you get it tuned right at your full boost pressure, I wouldn't be surprised if you could advance timing a little more, add an extra 5PSI or so and get another 10 or 20WHP out of your car on the dyno. Hell, I'd bring a few big nozzles just in case. It would surprise most people the amount of water you can safely dump into the intake tract of a car. Likewise, most would also be surprised the amount of HP you can free up by doing this. Washer fluid horsepower FTW...

 

[turbowop]

I checked pump voltage after the resistor last night while working on the car. I was like 11.89v. I bet the resistor just keeps it from going to 14.4v when the car is running.

The secondary meth maps are sweet. I was pulling out like 20% of regular gas when meth sprays on the last system. The problem with Maftpro is that it still has to piggyback onto the ECU and use a custom burned eprom chip, which made changes to the setup a pain in my ass. Now that I have ECMlink, I can make any necessary changes and add timing under WOT. Not to mention better datalogging and other fine tuning. I'm willing to bet that Lucas and Aaron will be able to pull a lot more power out of my car. I'm pretty excited.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Well good luck. Let us know how the dyno results turn out.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Hey Wop I think this is a sign... click

 

[turbowop]

A sign for what? For me to buy a progressive setup? I'm happy with what I have, so I'll pass.

I got the car all finished over the weekend. Meth kit wiring works as it should having done it like my last diagram. Cleaned up a decade worth of wiring splices and connections. Soldered and shrink wrapped everything and hard wired in my map and iat sensors. Went out and drove the car on ECMlink SD without issue. Dyno tuning for pump gas and meth injection maps on Friday!

 

[thecman02]

Sweet. I was late to this thread or I would have taken the time to check out your wiring but it sounds like you have it figured out. I'm curious what English Racing will eek out of the system. They really impressed me with both their cars/tuning skills, and the fact that they were very friendly and helpful in the pits.

 

[Brianawd]

What time you going to be at the Dyno ?

 

[turbowop]

10am Friday morning.

 

[Brianawd]

I may come hang out for a little bit. I have friday off

 

[turbowop]

Sweet, see you there.