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Meth/water - Am I making this harder than it should be?

WaRrIoRs16

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Ferndale, WA
I want just one switch to change my timing/fuel maps and turn on my meth injection. But I also want to use the boost safe feature provided with the kit. It says the boost safe wire is grounded when active, so I think I got my diagram drawn correctly. Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong.

I have a TurboXS Dual stage EBC that requires 12v to go to high boost. I plan to use the idle switch to enable switching between maps. One map will be completely absent of meth. I am using the AEM meth kit. Sorry if its difficult to read. Thanks

 

jepherz

Staff member
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Messages
7,877
Location
KC, Missouri
Looks like you're both powering and triggering the first relay on the left via the eco switch. I understand that isn't why you're using relays really, but that sorta defeats the purpose of them. I don't know how much power draw there will be, but you're putting all the stress that the relay is supposed to handle on the switch anyways. You should just run main power from the ignition wiring instead, and just have the eco button do the relay switching.
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
^^^ What he said.

It's best to have a dedicated feed for the system, and use the switch only for switching the system on/off.



What type of relays are you using for this project?

What's the current draw of the meth pump?




click on pic to enlarge

click on pic to enlarge

These pictures shows the two most common terminal configurations. 5 pin on the left/4 pin on the right.


... there are many more, so be very careful how you arrange things.


Luckily, the terminal numbers are mostly standardized.

In addition, most of the quality relays will have a pictogram on the relay body, as well as the terminal numbers next to the terminals on the bottom of the relay.



T30 input (note; can be fed power or ground)

T87a normally closed contact
When not the relay coil is not energized, the relay will pass t30 thru this terminal (five pin relay only)


T87 normally open contact
this is the output when the relay coil is energized.
(Whatever you feed t30 will come out here when the relay is "on")



T85 *generally* 12v+ from switch/powersource

T86 *generally* to ground/switchable ground

The last two callouts are for the relay coil and somewhat interchangeable on many cheap/cheesy/generic relays. If you;re using the good stuff, make t85 power and t86 ground. Note, you can switch either the power or the ground to trigger the relay.

In the pic I posted above it shows a little rectangular box across the coil terminals 85 and 86. That pictorially depicts a resistor (yeah, doesn;t match the "usual" diagram hieroglyph for a resistor, don;t know why they do that)

This is one way to protect the switch from the c.e.m.f. of the collapsing field when the relay is de-energized.



click on pic to enlarge

The arrow with a line in front of it on the t85 leg shows the relay coil is equipped with an anti-flyback diode. This makes the relay coil directionally sensitive. The relay on the right is equipped with a resistor and an anti-flyback diode. It is a high end relay that is used when failure of the upstream switchgear is not an option.


Now, I only mention this because using two relays in series, (with one driving another,) will result in blown fuses/coils/ fused contacts in the primary relay if the collapsing field energy from the second relay is not properly dealt with.

It helps to think of this situation like an ignition system's primary coil dumping it's magnetic field energy into the secondary side of the coil. That system takes 12volts and turns it into 40 thousand volts thru the principle of magnetic induction.

Although you're dealing with smaller coils, the principle is the same, you're just feeding the energy back into the upstream coil here

Turning off the secondary coil collapses the relays coils magnetic field, and that energy heads back up the power line (t85). It's actually stunning how much voltage there will be, on the order of a couple of thousand volts (if not more!) (that's a lot of turns of wire in the coil!) This will absolutely zorch the contact points over time, leading to a failure that will render the meth system in-op.

Your best bet is to study the pictogram of the first relay set I posted, and then redraw the diagram, putting the terminals in the correct order and polarity.



I would also add a series of system status led's.

an led for system armed

an led that will show when the system is on/spraying

an led for low fluid level


The instrument cluster has a nice row of automatic transmission indicator blocks stacked vertically in the center of the cluster that are not used in a the manual tranny vr-4s that makes for an excellent location for status indicators.

With the led's in your line of sight, you'll know the system status at a glance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Last edited:

WaRrIoRs16

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Ferndale, WA
The only load that is actually on the ECO switch is the EBC, the small draw from the relays themselves, and the ARM wire for the meth controller. The Controller, the LED, and the Meth pump are both powered separately off the battery. The ARM wire is like a remote input to a car audio amplifier. I am using the AEM meth kit and it comes with an LED to provide a live meth system status indication.

So your saying I want to use the relays in the first picture? Those were the relays I was basing my diagram off of. Will those relays have issues with the collapsing field energy from the second relay? Or does that resistor dissipate that energy?
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
To be completely honest with you, I'm not sure I understand your diagram.

... does the meth safe green wire on t85 located on the second relay provide a ground to shut the system down?

I can;t see for sh*t and it'd be a lot easier for me if you pm me your phone number and I'll walk you through it over the phone.

Like to see you get this right the first time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

WaRrIoRs16

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Ferndale, WA
First time would be great lol. Heres a better drawing. The boost safe output says it is grounded when activated. I will PM you my number so I can explain what I got.
 

WaRrIoRs16

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Ferndale, WA
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