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Quaife center diff HELP!

Hi All,

I bought one of these on a whim several months ago after receiving an unexpected bonus at work, only to later read a lot of people have had issues with them.

From what I can ascertain from exhaustive searching, the problem lies with the gear that drives the diff.
Apparently Mitsubishi changed the pitch by a VERY small amount half way through 1991. (so small you can't tell by looking I'm told)
From what I've read, using this diff with the older pitch will eventually lead to a failure.

Has anyone here got/used one of these diffs successfully? and/or know what gearbox I should be looking for?
Ultimately I would like to retain some of the features of my 'EVO 0' or 'VR4 RS' box (W5M33 WQYK) such as steel forks + better syncos (I believe) etc.

To make matters even more confusing, I've converted this box to 3.545 and have a front mech LSD.

I'm thinking maybe EVO 1 or 2? but can't recall if these fit a VR4.
I've been offered an EVO3 box, but I'm not sure if I can 3.545 it etc.
Maybe a GSR box? I guess I can put the steel forks in it, but what about the better synco's?

I'm so lost with this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
HELP!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sorry for the long post and thank you for reading!

Cheers,
Russ.
 

There is nothing confusing about it.

Swap ring gears on both the center diff and Final drive.

If you convert a Final in a trans, it's as easy as swapping it back over.

You already been in the trans, how hard can it be? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Brianawd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
The problem with the quaife center is the case will not take the power our cars make. It the only diff quaife will not warrenty. They always say our 3rd gears brakes the case on the diff when it brakes. Not true. Lots of people have pulled there quaife diffs out to check them and fined the case is cracked. Every thing else in the trans if perfect. If I was you I would sell the diff.
 

I hear what you are saying, I pretty much figured I should sell it, but who the f is gonna buy one of these defective pos?
And what about the alleged change of 3rd gear pitch post 91? SURELY that could be causing issues?

Has ANYONE ever had success with these?

Is it a case of they're fine for track work etc, but useless for dragging? (my intended purpose)

Cheers all,
Russ
 

GSX_TC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
I was going to go with the kaaz lsd
 

pauleyman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
You can't bolt in the wrong pitch. It won't go. It isn't hard to verify. You also can't change the ring gear on the center diff. If you want to swap them you have to change the intermediate shaft and 3rd gear. Likely they only built them for the later style pitch.
 

Brianawd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
Its not our trans that brakes the diff!!! That's quaifes way to cover there ass. Its the weak case of the quaife.


Read below.


Effective June 15, 2001, Quaife America will no longer replace broken differential housings on 76.309.155 (9B1) Center Differentials at no charge.

We have found that, due to design constraints of the transmission, the original equipment third gear that meshes with the center diff housing is prone to failure under extreme loading in modified vehicles. When this gear fails, it may cause the gear teeth ground on the Quaife housing to break, necessitating replacement. The Quaife Center Differential made for the Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon AWD Turbo models are built from very high strength, case hardened material. However, even the superior construction of the Quaife Differential may fail under these situations, under no fault of the Quaife product.

Since this type of failure is not a fault of the Quaife product, we will not replace a broken housing that is due to this type of occurrence free of charge under the Quaife lifetime warranty policy. We will, however, replace the housings at a specially arranged price that covers our manufacturing costs.

All other components of this differential remain fully covered under our limited lifetime warranty.

For more info, contact our tech department at (949) 240-4000.
 

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies, but I feel like I am being a little miss-understood.

I am fully aware that there is no removable ring gear on the CENTER diff, I read somewhere (god I wish I could find it) that the gear inside the box that meshes with the CENTER diff, was changed by Mitsubishi at some point in 1991.

I am wondering if ALL the people that have had trouble with this diff, were unknowingly installing it into an earlier transmission and therefore the gears weren't meshing correctly (as previously stated, the change in pitch is apparently SO small, that it is extremely difficult to tell) whats more, because the difference is so slight, it will still work, but IS destined for failure.

My question is, has anybody ever installed this diff into the gearbox with the CORRECT pitch meshing gear AND still had problems.

It's so hard to express tone in text, so please don't take the above as being narky in any way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks again,
Russ.
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
Trusty,

I'm shooting in the dark a bit here because I never got a definite answer to this myself but I am hoping that perhaps a little group dynamics and lateral thinking here might help shed some light on the issue. I noticed a while ago that there are very few aftermarket differentials marketed as being VR4 specific. The vast majority are EVO III differentials that we are simply told are 'the same'. Now I take some issue with this but there are some as of yet unresolved anomolies that make it very difficult to make a conclusive decision about this ... let me try to explain!

We have been using EVO III gear sets in DSM and VR4 transmissions for as long as most of you have been racing, because they are the strongest gear sets available. Now the problem is that whilst these gear sets appear to fit without issue, the EVO III gear set was actually different to the EVO I and EVO II gear sets that preceded it and which were essentially identical to the VR4 EVO/RS 3.909 gear sets. Whilst the EVO III gear set retains the 3.909 final ratio it has a different tooth count on the front ring or crown wheel gear which was compensated for by using an EVO III specific transfer case which has a different ratio to ALL VR4/DSM transfer cases.

Now is this the case with the Quaife diff? I don't know. Some people on here will tell you it is bullshit because Quaife America markets the diff as a domestic market DSM part. However I have spoken to some very big guns in the transmission rebuilding world and most of them didn't even know the EVO III has a different front ring and pinion. Most have never even seen a FULL EVO III drive train only the individual gear sets. I wouldn't mind betting the Quaife diff is another EVO III specific diff that just appears to fit.

I have been warned about the difference in pitch of the EVO III diff drive gear before but I too have yet to find the evidence. The fact is however that there is somewhat limited use of these EVO III centre diffs in the States. Since most people drag race they use spools, welded centre diffs or modified 4 spiders designed for or from domestic market vehicles. I have to say however I find it extremely suspicious that Quaife specifically targets the 3rd gear as being a culprit in the exploding centre diff phenomenon when as pauleyman points out that is the EXACT same gear plus intermediate shaft that requires swapping out if changing the centre diff drive gear. What I can't explain however is that IF this IS the issue why are most EVO III specific diffs listed as being for the EVO I, II and III? If the tooth count difference is an issue it would make the diffs unsuitable for use in EVO I and II transmissions as those have (as far as I am aware) the exact same ring and pinion gear as your EVO/RS transmission.

I also have no idea regarding this 'pitch change' date you have identified either. I believe the EVO III was a 1995-1996 model so that doesn't match up at all. I don't really have any more suggestions other than to say that if this IS the case, I'd snap up that EVO III box you were offered, try to locate an EVO III specific transfer case and 3.909 rear end and run it as a complete EVO III drive train. But if you want the 3.545 final ratio this won't really be an option.

Hopefully some of the Aussies and Kiwis will chip in as they were the ones who warned me about this issue with my EVO III Cusco centre diff. I'm hoping to get a definite answer before I start putting any serious mileage on my car and mess something up.
 
Last edited:

pauleyman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
All of the part number changes are well documented in ASA/CAPS. There was a gear pitch change. 90-91 were different from 92 up. I do not know where the gvr4 split changes but I think it's the same. 91 is different than 92. Look it up. The difference is small. There are hash marks on the ring gear that will identify what it is. I don't remember what they are. You might google it. They do not interchange. They cannot accidently interchange. Anybody who wants to check merely needs to pick up their intermediate shaft and try and mesh it with their center diff in their hands. It will mesh smoothly and perfectly parallel. If you had the wrong pitch it will be immediately obvious. This gear pitch is also the reason it's difficult/expensive to put a double cone 2nd in a 90 trans. Not only are the pitches different but the 90 had a smaller diameter intermediate shaft. The only shaft that you can use without changing anything else is the 91 shaft as it's bigger (same as all other 92 up) but retains the different 3rd gear pitch. It's a one year only thing so good luck finding a used one. You almost always had to buy a new one.
 

Crikey! sounds like a real can of worms there! lol

Thanks for the long detailed reply man, I think I've decided to ditch the quaife in favor of a 4-spider center in any case as dragging is what I mainly do.

I'm currently exploring the option of a shep stage 3 trans and have asked if he can build it with a quaife front lsd, as I believe these were ok.
I also asked him if I can retain my 3.545 rear-end, I'll see what he says.

Thanks again for the replies guys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Russ.
 

brisvr4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
955
Location
brisbane australia
If you are mainly interested in drag racing it why not weld the centre diff?
Mine is welded and I have zero issues with driving it. The only issue is trying to turn hard into parking space, it skips the inner wheel.
 

pauleyman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
I'm curious why you think you would have to change your rear end ratio. Nothing in the gear sets or center diff will affect final drive. The only possible variables are front diff, rear diff and transfer case. I know a bunch of guys say run evo this, or run that. What I really want to know if how does anybody know what you need if they don't know what your goals are and what the car is meant to do. I have taken apart a few non US transmissions and to get them to work in a US car I swapped the front diff ratio. I've been able to use the stock LSD front diffs with US ring gears. I'm not a fan of welded diffs. There is a diff in there for a reason. But to each his own. I'm also not a big drag racer and even if I were the car would still see 99% of it's duty on the street where I have to turn, park etc.
 

totally agree regarding locked centers, my friend did it to his and it was just horrible. Especially when reversing out of a parking spot.

Regarding the query about rear diff ratio, I was wondering because I thought the sheptrans (new ones - not rebuilds) start out with an E3 box and was unsure if these can run the correct front diff ring gear for 3.545 at the rear.

Something I read further up this thread had me thinking that but I dunno, it's been 3-1/2 yrs since I pulled one down and can't for the life of me remember what the hecks what in there!

Anyway it's all good now, shep got back to me and said 3.545 is no problem.
 
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