The Top Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Resource

Join the best E39A 1991-1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 community and document your GVR4 journey.

  • Software Upgraded - Reset Your Password to Login
    In order to log in after the forum software change, you need to reset your password. If you don't have access to the email address you used to register your GVR4.org account, you won't be able to reset your password. In that case, follow the instructions here to regain access to the forum.

1600cc injectors - How much power on E85

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
How much power do you think 1600cc injectors can handle on E85 before they reach 90%-95% duty cycle.
 

Brunoboy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,880
Location
San Bruno,CA Home of SFO
IIRC, Size of injector X .67 is what the injectors turn into. so 1600X.67=1072cc.
 

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

I know that but my question is how much power can that handle?
 

Brunoboy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,880
Location
San Bruno,CA Home of SFO
hmm, you would think it would depends on airflow and turbo right?
 

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
Well it doesn't because in order for an engine to make the same power as another 4G63 engine (ignoring differences in friction and other factors), it will need the same amount of fuel, air and spark at the same compression ratio and AFR.

So I am asking how much power can 1600cc injectors handle on E85. I am looking for real world numbers and not captain obvious answers that everyone knows about E85.
 
Last edited:

Dark_Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
303
Location
Morrison, CO
Pretty much more than anyone is going to run except for the big boys. IIRC 1600cc injectors can flow upwards of ~80lb/min on E85 at 100% IDC. But that number depends on your air-fuel ratio and your base pressure/how many psi boost you're running, so YMMV.
 
Last edited:

Terry Posten

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
A friend of mine has 1250s running E85 at almost 500whp. And he is only at 75% duty cycle.
 

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
PERFECT! That is what I wanted to hear. I have plenty of room when I go above 500whp. Probably going to aim for 550whp so I know I have enough ceiling room.
 

Galantvr41062

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
410
Location
plymouth, MN
Last year I was running a set of FAST 160lb/hr injectors in my car. I made 650awhp at DB Performance, AWD dyno dynamics un corrected, so it would be about 750 FWHP on a 2wd dyno guess, on E85 with a built 2.0, GT4202 and 38psi. The target A/F ratio was 11.8:1, injector duty cycle was 90% with a base fuel pressure of 40psi and a fuel pump that could not keep up, so fuel pressure would drop as RPM increased.

~John
 

4thStroke

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
Brianawd runs a walbro 255 in tank and an 044 inline, he maxed out his 3052 at 561awhp on 1600s and more fuel to spare.

Your fuel pump configuration will affect duty cycle as well. Running 2 pumps parallel will keep the IDC down, where as two pumps in line will run up the IDC higher.
 

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
I was thinking about getting a set of Bosch 044s for inline use. Haven't thought about all my options yet.
 

Galantvr41062

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
410
Location
plymouth, MN
Quoting 4thStroke:
Brianawd runs a walbro 255 in tank and an 044 inline, he maxed out his 3052 at 561awhp on 1600s and more fuel to spare.

Your fuel pump configuration will affect duty cycle as well. Running 2 pumps parallel will keep the IDC down, where as two pumps in line will run up the IDC higher.




I would say a wine bro 255 with a 044 inline would support more hp then a parallel 255 setup in tank. If you ask me high boost small motor cars need A LOT of fuel pressure, but not A LOT of fuel flow to make power. If you run a base fuel pressure of 40psi and 40psi of boost you need a fuel system setup that can support 80psi or fuel pressure, and injectors that are big and running high duty cycles.

I had an Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump last year, and the fuel pressure would drop to high 60's during the run on the dyno. The way it works is at 0psi manifold pressure, ie atmosphere pressure, the motor takes this much fuel to make this much HP. Now add 1 bar of boost on that same engine, and the same A/F ratio needs twice as much fuel. And what ever boost you run that intake manifold pressure is trying to push that fuel back into the injector, thus the need for a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

And its now its not a surprise the twin in take winebros do not work as good as they should. Because for the most part our high boost cars need more fuel pressure vs mass flow, which a twin winebro setup does not move A LOT of fuel at 40psi base fuel pressure, and as pressure increases flow decreases.

~John
 

dewman

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,054
Location
AR
Something i've been curious to know is with more guys running e85,is would it be a better idea to run a mechanical fuel pump setup? Such as the Magnus pump drive and a Waterman mech pump? Granted the cost would be quite a bit higher(around $1300).
 

Brianawd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
Quote:
I would say a wine bro 255 with a 044 inline would support more hp then a parallel 255 setup in tank. If you ask me high boost small motor cars need A LOT of fuel pressure, but not A LOT of fuel flow to make power. If you run a base fuel pressure of 40psi and 40psi of boost you need a fuel system setup that can support 80psi or fuel pressure, and injectors that are big and running high duty cycles.







Over the years of running e85, I have learned that more flow works best. For some time I was running just one 255hp. With that pump and the 1600cc injectors I was only able to run 27psi at a BFP of 42psi. Now when I dropped my bfp to 35psi I was able to run 29-30psi. The Drop in bfp helped bring the pump down to a better presure where it could flow more fuel.
 

Walbro will max out at 80 psi total combined fuel pressure & boost. If you plan on going above or close to running 40 psi of boost, then the Walbro pump won't be able to deliver. If your below those psi levels, then the Walbro is fine. E85 works a little different than pump gas by needing more volume than pressure as Brian found out. While it still needs the pressure, it also needs more volume to perform at the same level as pump gas.
 

alansupra94

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
Quoting dewman:
Something i've been curious to know is with more guys running e85,is would it be a better idea to run a mechanical fuel pump setup? Such as the Magnus pump drive and a Waterman mech pump? Granted the cost would be quite a bit higher(around $1300).



I know for a fact that I don't have anymore room for accessories. I still have my A/C system there (well its going to be there).

Thanks for chiming in guys. I will probably be going with a twin supra or walbro pump setup and a -8an feed line and a -6an return.
 
Last edited:

Dark_Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
303
Location
Morrison, CO
Why would anyone use twin Walbros when you can spend an extra $50 and get the Jayracing pro series pumps? Jayracing Pro series 341 & 342 (same diameter as a Walbro 255) will flow 340lph at 40psi.
 
Last edited:

Rausch

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
12,049
Location
Cleveland, OH
What about that Aeromotive that was posted recently? (The 255, 044 and Aero comparo thread link)

IIRC, it flowed far more at lower pressures that either.
 

Quoting alansupra94:
Interesting. Anyone have personal experience with them?



Yes. We still have to tune the car but we replaced the in-tank 255HP Walbro in-tank pump on an Evo 9 & the car is pig rich right off the bat. Initially the car was tuned to 24psi on 93 Octane & made 450 awhp on the stock motor & one Walbro 255HP fuel pump. We have another 1g with twin in-tank that needs to be tuned as well on a PTE-6262.

All the data provided online shows this pump outflows the Walbro & our initial install agrees with this but no real figures to back it up yet. Hopefully within the next week or two we'll be able to tune one of the cars.

I plan to run two of these dual feed on my gvr4 for the new PTE-6776 E-85 1600cc setup. These will be sufficient for the power level I want.
 
Support Vendors who Support the GVR-4 Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Recent Forum Posts

Top