mk2davis
(Member)
05/10/20 01:13 PM
Source for knock sensor

Anyone have a resource for knock sensors? I've checked Orielly's, Napa, AZ, Pepboys, PerformancePartout, Andy's autoparts, Partsgeek, Rockauto... no joy.

OEM part number I think is MD141510

Mitsubishipartswarehouse.com price is $10000, too bad it's not available...

Amazon says they have some, but they look different: click


raptorWagon
(less than one year to my birthday)
05/10/20 10:12 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Parts Geek
They have one available, and I just ordered some other NLA parts from them for one of my other cars recently.


mk2davis
(Member)
05/10/20 10:25 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Both the parts listed are out of stock. Any other ideas?

raptorWagon
(less than one year to my birthday)
05/11/20 01:37 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

ebay?

transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
05/11/20 07:08 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I have 3 knock sensor sitting on order from an eBay company. They claimed to be in the states and ended up being in China. I'm still waiting, as I couldn't find them anywhere else.

mk2davis
(Member)
05/11/20 12:00 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Vividracing.com and horsepowerfreaks.com (which seem to be the same company) list:

Original Equipment W0133-1623757, click

for about 75 delivered.


moduleunknown
(Schooner)
05/11/20 03:27 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I wonder if they truly have any "in stock." I added 99 to my cart and their website didn't complain. I highly doubt they have that many available. I'd suspect their site doesn't properly track inventory or suppliers.

It doesn't look like anyone is making these knock sensors anymore.

I recently came across a thread on DSMtuners here which is more of the same - no one being able to find an OEM replacement.

However, that thread does lead to a potential replacement. NTK ID0263 Knock Sensor (which appears to still be available) may be the same sensor, but with shorter wires. Something to look into if that vividracing order doesn't pan out...


mk2davis
(Member)
05/11/20 04:38 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I found that thread to on that OTHER forum, but I didn't see any confirmation one way or another. Iirc, that was the sensor for miatas. I think the concern about if they work for our motors is legitimate, but I have no idea. I also ordered one from fleabay, I'll report back if and when either one is received.

My current sensor gives phantom knock at like 2000rpm at next to no load (loadfactor .2 to. 4), and possibly valid knock with 5-8psi. I'm hoping this background will help determine if the new one (s) function right.


slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
05/12/20 03:16 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

ugh seeing this makes me consider hoarding some if a good source is found- but even then, how long is the goo shelf stable?



transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
05/12/20 08:04 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I plan on storing mine in a cool, dark place and hope they last once I receive them.

mooserage
(New Title)
05/12/20 12:52 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Probably a good idea to just cryogenically freeze them until needed

I've been following this thread for a bit and even sourced a possible alternative replacement. I created a plug n play harness for the Miata sensor. The sensor is made by mitsu and looks exactly the same as ours down to the goo and all. Plugging it in to see if it throws a CEL or not is easy enough, but...

Biggest issue, as pointed out in the tuners thread, is determining if it has the right frequency filters. No one has been able to get any manufacturers to confirm if the the filtered frequencies are the same, and there aren't any very scientific ways to confirm it. As of now I plan to run a known good DSM knock sensor and make a few logs, then swap and try to replicate and compare results. If anyone wanted to test the Miata sensor, I would be happy to work with them, but can make no guarantees about it working, just speculation based on someone from tuner's experience. As an alternative, I may try a standalone knock detection in conjunction with both sensors to see if they pickup the same knock detected by the standalone. Its a little risky to run these while making a pull with potentially bad knock detection, but there aren't a lot of alternatives for confirming.

Ultimately, it's not a very scientific approach. Knowing from Mitsubishi what the filter frequencies for these sensors is would be the best, but short of that, I assume someone would need an oscilloscope or similar equipment to test the filters. No one is stepping up with a scientific approach, just a lot of speculation (Miata and CSM sensors look the same, made by Mitsu) and I think we're all really hoping something works.


transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
05/12/20 02:12 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

my only concern is the CSM and miata were mostly non-turbo models. the real question is does the non turbo CSM/miata and turbo model CSM/miata have the same part number. if not then id say wrong frequency, never thought of looking at different vehicles for a matching knock sensor...

mooserage
(New Title)
05/12/20 07:20 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

No, and I wouldn't expect them to have the same part number. CSM has a shorter cable with the same plug, Miata is of course a Mazda part number, but also has a different plug and cable length, so all of the part numbers are different. The real question is are the internals the same, even if cable lengths and styles are different? The piezoelectric element could be the same across all 3 with the ECU discerning what is knock or not for that motor, or the filtering might be a physical difference in the element/internal electronics, then they would not be cross-compatible. But, that's what I mean, it's all conjecture without the right engineering info.

raptorWagon
(less than one year to my birthday)
05/12/20 08:19 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I believe he was referring to turbo and NA models of either cars sharing the part numbers between them, not manufacturers lol.

raptorWagon
(less than one year to my birthday)
05/12/20 08:29 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

And the Knock sensor MD131681 that is on the 1.6l C53A Mirage, is the same for E33A (with 4g63) and E38A Galants according to ASA. The DOHC 4g61 C63A mirages, however don't have anything available in ASA for a knock sensor...it's either been long time obsolete or they didn't have one.

mooserage
(New Title)
05/13/20 10:36 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Quoting raptorWagon:

I believe he was referring to turbo and NA models of either cars sharing the part numbers between them, not manufacturers lol.



Fair point, I didn't read it well enough


mk2davis
(Member)
06/02/20 02:50 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I've inquired with horsepowerfreaks.com as to what is going on with my knock sensor. They haven't responded to me in about 2 weeks.

My Chinese one has been shipped, but I don't have an eta.


mk2davis
(Member)
06/21/20 12:11 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

My new knock sensors came in!!!

Neither of them work. These are the non-OEM style with a shallow nut.

I tested each on the car, both caused the CEL "knock sensor circuit malfunction".

I got these off of Ebay. Different vendors, but identical packaging/box/label.

I will not be experimenting with Ebay knock sensors anymore unless I can find an OEM example. Which sucks because my OEM is suspect.

Anyone that has a lead on an OEM sensor, I'd be very interested.


mk2davis
(Member)
06/21/20 01:13 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I'm finding conflicting information, maybe you can help clear this up.

Does a non turbo 1g dsm have a knock sensor? I don't think so, but I have found some application listing that say yes. The same part number (MD141510) is listed on some sites, but still unavailable. This could be a case of inaccurate listings.

If it does have one (big if), would a knock sensor for a 1993 Hyundai Sonata work? That motor is the G4CP, AKA the 4G63. I haven't searched for this Hyundai knock sensor. If it exists, I still don't know if it's sensitive to the same range.

This option seems to be similar to the Miata solution, and I'd LOVE to hear of anyone's opinion or experience.


thomcasey
(I ain't no puny human)
06/22/20 02:15 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

They don't have one. The real tell-tale sign is in the NA ECU. It does not have the knock-board.

mk2davis
(Member)
06/24/20 12:17 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be buying some 100 oct and see what that does.

If anyone finds a source for the knock sensor, don't be shy.

We can add factorymitsubishiparts.com to the list of places that don't have it. It is listed as available, but my order was soon cancelled.


iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
06/24/20 03:29 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

See the end of this thread (page 3) on Tuners.

tooners knock sensor


mk2davis
(Member)
06/26/20 12:24 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

Thanks Iceman! It looks like NTK ID0263 is the Mirage plug that is 1" shorter. Clubplug.net was the only site that I could find that had it. The price was decent, $86 delivered. I'll let everyone know my experience.

JNR
(5 star (English Professor) member Has extensive pop up picture book collection)
06/26/20 06:10 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

What are the actual differences between all the knock sensors?
For example:
Is it mostly physical, like say protrusion, how far it sticks out, thread diameter/pitch, etc.?
Is there a particular value range that is needed for the ECU (i.e. x reading turns into y signal)?
A particular connector needed? Although this would be the easiest part to adapt...

Asking, because it seems with all the different types of engines out there, must be something else that can be chosen/used once the variables are known.


CutlassJim
(poop load of room)
06/27/20 11:32 AM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I've always wondered myself why a newer style Mitsu sensor wouldn't work. Especially something like a 2G sensor. But I also know almost zero about the workings of a knock sensor. I just assume the newer sensors are a different style of output. Similar to a Vortex vs Hotwire MAF.

mk2davis
(Member)
06/30/20 01:01 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

2 things. I don't know about 2g sensors, but supposedly the Evo sensor range is vastly different in range compared to the 1g unit. The Evo ECU and 1g ECU is supposed to have different filtering ability in the board. Or so I've read.

Received an email regarding the mirage knock sensor availability. National backorder, eta 30-90 days. This was from clubplug.net.


gvr4ever
(Forever Member)
06/30/20 02:10 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I changed mine about 10 years ago with a factory knock sensor, still okay....

The only thing I recall breaking down was the packing material/goo. This break down causes it to be too sensitive. I don't think the coil breaks ever (correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm wondering if it would be possible to just mimic the original filling and maybe just redo a used one. Just thinking out of the box, but the knock sensor is just a mic pickup. Just need to make a used one not as sensitive to avoid phantom knock.

I know, easier said than done, but surely it could be done.


467
(mass moment of inertia )
06/30/20 11:17 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I was thinking that some people have used EVO ecu's in their VR4. Did they switch to an evo knock sensor or use the VR4 OEM one? If the EVO ecu's work with the VR4 sensors it would seem like the reverse would be true if they mount the same way.

Eztoril
(Junior Member)
07/02/20 04:00 PM
Re: Source for knock sensor

I use the evo ecu and had to use a evo knock sensor.

Some of the older Hyundai engines are copy cat designs of the 4g63. Those may still be available from Hyundai.

Who wants to be the ginuea pig and try them??


Just realized that you already know about the Hyundais.



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