blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
04/29/09 11:28 AM
Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

I was debating with someone as to how the gvr4 does not allow for a wastegate mounted manifold well as well as this being an older inefficient way of setting it up. I didnt think there were any ones available anymore with the option of the wastegate on the manifold like SFP cracktacular (not cracka like VRausch4, I meant crack like....never mind, Steef knows)

I was told that there are no 02 housings with manifolds designed for the gvr4 or that would fit the gvr4 like the FP one.

I have been suggesting that this guy run an Evo III 16G from FP as best approach and kee it simple, but he would like to go green or 20G which I think are also decent street turbos.

I am rusty on what fits and doesnt since I havent worked on one for a while, can y'all fill me in?

Thanks!


bazeng
(work in progress)
04/29/09 04:29 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Not sure if this relates, but a friend purchased an FP3065 with the dump pipe and tial gate, now he had clearance issues with the gate hitting the power steering pump shield. He has a GVR4 motor in a lancer GSR chassis.

It did fit after some bending / bashing on the shield though.
I dont think the dump pipe that was supplied fit too well though as the clearance between the radiator and the exhaust was not enough... Possibly good on DSM's??


BoostedAWD91
(Senior Member)
04/29/09 05:09 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

i have a tial 40mm on my exhaust manifold. Here is how mine is setup


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
04/29/09 07:17 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting bazeng:

Not sure if this relates, but a friend purchased an FP3065 with the dump pipe and tial gate, now he had clearance issues with the gate hitting the power steering pump shield. He has a GVR4 motor in a lancer GSR chassis.

It did fit after some bending / bashing on the shield though.
I dont think the dump pipe that was supplied fit too well though as the clearance between the radiator and the exhaust was not enough... Possibly good on DSM's??




I had to remove the PS pump heat shield for my FP3052 setup. I just looked at my other GVR4 to see if it could be clearanced, but it's missing the shield also. I guess it's not that important as I haven't had any issues with either car regarding heating up the PS pump. As far as the FP dump pipe clearing the radiator, mine is fine. Everything fits really well.

Back when I had my FPgreen setup, I had to do some custom work to the Victory Performance O2 housing I had for it. The O2 housing was made for DSM radiator clearances, so once it was bolted onto the Galant and the wastegate was mounted, it hit the radiator. I had to cut the O2 mount and have it rewelded so it would clear. Wasn't a huge deal, just a little inconvenient.


Rausch
(Rock Star Status)
04/29/09 11:57 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quote:

(not cracka like VRausch4, I meant crack like....never mind, Steef knows)


You bastard guy.

If I remember correctly you lose about 1" of clearance between the DSM and the Garrant.


blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
04/30/09 10:52 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Good stuff to know...

Wopper - Yuor FP green - was it internally gated? Any creep issues? I keep telling this guy Evo 3 16G is all he needs, but we keep circling 18g, 20g, sleeper 16g, fp green. I think I have him talked into internally gated for easy bolt-on and to run a Evo 3 02 housing.

He says he wants to auto-x and just have a fun highway car. I think Evo 3 16G is all he really needs.

Any opinions on sleeper 16G and 18G? from some expert advice, they are laggy....


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
04/30/09 03:33 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Don't forget that TiAL now makes a stubby "space saver" wastegate.

blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
04/30/09 03:53 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

True. I am trying to talk him out of external WGA and build a simple car and rely on suspension and weight reduction...

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
04/30/09 05:00 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

My FPgreen setup used an external wastegate. I used a Tial 40mm. For a 20g and larger, I would go with an external for better boost control.

If he wants to autocross, I would stick with a simple Evo3 16g.


deez
(Nutz)
04/30/09 05:06 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Tough call as to what turbo to go with. I run the E16G, and if you look at my list of mods, its a well built car. Its fun, but now that I am used to the amount of power, I am bored with it and want more. So I guess it depends on the person. For me, its a great setup for a street car. But more would be better

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
04/30/09 06:35 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

for a 20g you can actually put a WG on top of the manifold as there is a ton more clearance on a gvr4 than a dsm (where that doesn't work). Andre (Grocery_Getter) had a setup like that with his 20g at one point.

Honestly, if you want to go decently big, internal wastegates are garbage, but if he wants to go autoX without going bigger displacement wise (or at least compression) a big turbo won't be any fun regardless.


jepherz
(Too Clean)
05/01/09 10:17 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting VRausch4:

Quoting blacksheep:

(not cracka like VRausch4, I meant crack like....never mind, Steef knows)


You bastard guy.

If I remember correctly you lose about 1" of clearance between the DSM and the Garrant.




As I recall, it's WAY more than that. Along the lines of 4 inches or so, because the DSM alternator kinda tilts forward to clear the roof line. I can get exact measurements if you want.


mitsuturbo
(Banthony )
05/01/09 10:38 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting blacksheep:

I was debating with someone as to how the gvr4 does not allow for a wastegate mounted manifold well as well as this being an older inefficient way of setting it up. I didnt think there were any ones available anymore with the option of the wastegate on the manifold like SFP cracktacular (not cracka like VRausch4, I meant crack like....never mind, Steef knows)

I was told that there are no 02 housings with manifolds designed for the gvr4 or that would fit the gvr4 like the FP one.

I have been suggesting that this guy run an Evo III 16G from FP as best approach and kee it simple, but he would like to go green or 20G which I think are also decent street turbos.

I am rusty on what fits and doesnt since I havent worked on one for a while, can y'all fill me in?

Thanks!



If you run a civic 1/2 width radiator, you have room for as much wastegate as you want. I had a problem with a deltagate on a Tnetics manifold years ago, it rubbed the radiator just a little, but i got it to work. I did have to "coerce" it a bit, though. The deltagate was shit, and i got rid of that setup. I ran a tial 38 mounted to a 2g manifold for a long time. It was mounted so it stood straight up, exiting forward with a 90° down turn on the dump pipe. That setup cracked around the welds and wasn't all that great. Now i'm running the HAFE cast mani with a tial 38 exiting straight down. I'm running a GT3076r and intend to replace my manifold with a FP unit, and get a FP turbine housing to replace the BEP one i have now. Since tial came out with that new shorty 38mm vband gate, i really think that's the way to go, for me.

I saw the radiator as a problem for a long time. Since going to a 2" thick two row half width radiator, all of my concerns about IC plumbing, turbo, manifold, and wastegate size/placement have disappeared.


mitsuturbo
(Banthony )
05/01/09 10:43 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting jepherz:

Quoting VRausch4:

Quoting blacksheep:

(not cracka like VRausch4, I meant crack like....never mind, Steef knows)


You bastard guy.

If I remember correctly you lose about 1" of clearance between the DSM and the Garrant.




As I recall, it's WAY more than that. Along the lines of 4 inches or so, because the DSM RADIATOR kinda tilts forward...




I fixed that for you.


jepherz
(Too Clean)
05/01/09 11:41 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Whoops! don't know what was on my mind. Thanks.

Nate
(May I have your autograph?)
05/02/09 09:47 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Or, you could just mount the gate on top of the runner, instead of facing out towards the front. Worked 14 years ago, should still work today.

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/02/09 11:42 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

That's how Andre had his setup. Worked great.




Nate
(May I have your autograph?)
05/02/09 12:39 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Mine was a little closer to the valve cover, and the dump tube ran further from the radiator. It let me use a stock radiator. ROCK steady boost control, though.

blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
05/02/09 12:45 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Nate and Wopper - No one makes a manifold with a mount in that manner, tho - do they? I looked up the hafe and it seems decent and a great price for a stainless cast manifold, I think. Correct me if I am wrong

click

On the civic radiator

Can you post pics please?
Which era of civic radiator?
Do you use stock or aftermarket radiator?
Do you fab up special mount for the radiator height and bolt to the gvr4 location?

His radiator is stock and white/grey on the top, so maybe he can upgrade to a civic radiator, perhaps....


blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
05/02/09 12:47 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting mitsuturbo:


If you run a civic 1/2 width radiator, you have room for as much wastegate as you want. I had a problem with a deltagate on a Tnetics manifold years ago, it rubbed the radiator just a little, but i got it to work. I did have to "coerce" it a bit, though. The deltagate was shit, and i got rid of that setup. I ran a tial 38 mounted to a 2g manifold for a long time. It was mounted so it stood straight up, exiting forward with a 90° down turn on the dump pipe. That setup cracked around the welds and wasn't all that great. Now i'm running the HAFE cast mani with a tial 38 exiting straight down. I'm running a GT3076r and intend to replace my manifold with a FP unit, and get a FP turbine housing to replace the BEP one i have now. Since tial came out with that new shorty 38mm vband gate, i really think that's the way to go, for me.

I saw the radiator as a problem for a long time. Since going to a 2" thick two row half width radiator, all of my concerns about IC plumbing, turbo, manifold, and wastegate size/placement have disappeared.




Can you post pics of this hafe manifold and wastegate setup you are running and how close it is to the PS pump?

Also your radiator setup, would be awesome....

Thanks!


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
05/02/09 02:03 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

At least a 2" thick core, aluminum aftermarket civic radiator. Can be had for $100 new.

My car never went above 208 degrees even in traffic.

I'll let someone with a "Clean" setup post pics.


Nate
(May I have your autograph?)
05/03/09 07:07 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

KC, mine was just a 95 manifold with the flange welded to the top of the runner, and gate bolted to that. Worked like a champ.

blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
05/04/09 10:09 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

hmm - I thought welding to stock one was a bizzniatch and broke off or something - Also, I thought some issue with the gate being on manifold and just one runner or something.. my memory is so fizzy from the non-gvr4 days...

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/04/09 10:42 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

In theory, off one runner isn't ideal, but works fine with our application as Nate said.

Mounting on the top also doesn't pose as big of a problem of the wastegate flange cracking since the weight isn't affecting it like it would if it were mounted on the side.


PJGross
(both buccal and lingual)
05/04/09 02:22 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Here was my solution:



I recirc back to the o2 housing, like this:




Plenty of alt clearance at least. A shorty wastegate would probably fit right on the flange, though. My radiator hit by about 1/2 or so.

-PJ


grocery_getter
(Senior Crab)
05/05/09 01:35 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

I sold that whole setup to someone on this list a while ago...


Quoting slugsgomoo:

for a 20g you can actually put a WG on top of the manifold as there is a ton more clearance on a gvr4 than a dsm (where that doesn't work). Andre (Grocery_Getter) had a setup like that with his 20g at one point.

Honestly, if you want to go decently big, internal wastegates are garbage, but if he wants to go autoX without going bigger displacement wise (or at least compression) a big turbo won't be any fun regardless.




grocery_getter
(Senior Crab)
05/05/09 01:39 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Wow, Wop, that's a throwback to simpler times. Didn't know you have this picture...

Nate, I remember the gate being really close to the valve cover as well.

Excellent boost control and wastegate dump that sounds like a pulse jet..



Quoting turbowop:

That's how Andre had his setup. Worked great.







turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/05/09 02:02 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

I have a bunch of pics still from that day. I remember we stopped by your house after MSHR. You hadn't even moved into the shop yet. Pic was taken in '03.

grocery_getter
(Senior Crab)
05/05/09 02:21 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

I took my GVR4 with the new setup autocrossing a few weekends ago at Bremerton. It is just crazy to be autocrossing with a 42R. I was stuck on 2nd gear all the time, setup for a turn, second gear, rpm going up to about 5500ish, turbo is suddenly spooled up, boost jumped up to 17-18psi and the whole car just started going sideway. Make for one crazy hard to point and shoot car since it cant and wont hold a turning line like that.

I miss autocrossing with Mark Minns at Bremerton.


blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
05/05/09 08:40 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Andreas - Can you still mod a manifold this way if sent to you? Thanks!

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
05/06/09 07:04 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting grocery_getter:

I took my GVR4 with the new setup autocrossing a few weekends ago at Bremerton. It is just crazy to be autocrossing with a 42R. I was stuck on 2nd gear all the time, setup for a turn, second gear, rpm going up to about 5500ish, turbo is suddenly spooled up, boost jumped up to 17-18psi and the whole car just started going sideway. Make for one crazy hard to point and shoot car since it cant and wont hold a turning line like that.

I miss autocrossing with Mark Minns at Bremerton.



I can't believe you came out to autocross in bremerton and didn't give me a call you jackass.

seriously, it's only a few minutes from my place to the track, would've been cool to see you out there.


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/06/09 07:53 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

I can't believe Andre's car is running and there are no pics on this board of it.

grocery_getter
(Senior Crab)
05/07/09 12:06 AM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Yes, despite being a big turbo car, this car is really fun to autocross with...

Slugs, I was traveling there in a pack, so I didn't want to split from the pack traveling that day. We arrived, registered, walked the course, did the run, did the work and left for home right away...

Wop, everybody in my group registered for the morning run leaving nobody to man the camera. I am planning to get an in car camera mount so I can mount a camera inside the windshield.

I registered for Bremerton's event #3 with the GVR4 again. Its on May 25th. It should be more fun this time around since the last event was my first venture out to autocross again after a long 10 years absence from it.

I am building Brad Degrazia's blue talon up for autocrossing and track day with a 2.4 and and old and tried and true evo16G.

I am also prepping my '89 911 for some autocross time too...this is going to be a busy season for me, driving wise. I am planning to get out there as much as I can afford this year.

I'll be at Pacific Raceway this Friday with the Galant. No time goal, just want to get used launching the car again.


slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
05/07/09 03:45 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

if you're not there too early on the 25th i'll try to be out there. I'm going on a ride around the olympic peninsula that weekend, but I think i'd be back sunday or early monday.

mitsuturbo
(Banthony )
05/07/09 06:26 PM
Re: Wastegate on exhaust manifold clearance issues on gvr4?

Quoting blacksheep:

Quoting mitsuturbo:


If you run a civic 1/2 width radiator, you have room for as much wastegate as you want. I had a problem with a deltagate on a Tnetics manifold years ago, it rubbed the radiator just a little, but i got it to work. I did have to "coerce" it a bit, though. The deltagate was shit, and i got rid of that setup. I ran a tial 38 mounted to a 2g manifold for a long time. It was mounted so it stood straight up, exiting forward with a 90° down turn on the dump pipe. That setup cracked around the welds and wasn't all that great. Now i'm running the HAFE cast mani with a tial 38 exiting straight down. I'm running a GT3076r and intend to replace my manifold with a FP unit, and get a FP turbine housing to replace the BEP one i have now. Since tial came out with that new shorty 38mm vband gate, i really think that's the way to go, for me.

I saw the radiator as a problem for a long time. Since going to a 2" thick two row half width radiator, all of my concerns about IC plumbing, turbo, manifold, and wastegate size/placement have disappeared.




Can you post pics of this hafe manifold and wastegate setup you are running and how close it is to the PS pump?

Also your radiator setup, would be awesome....

Thanks!




I'll post pics of my fugly shit tonight, unless i forget by the time i get home from work.



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