**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 06:48 PM
Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

I am thinking about centerlining my cams on my car, but don't want adjustable cam gears, I don't like them, but I will use offset keys, I just don't know where to get them.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 06:53 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

couldnt you just redrill them? How much do you want to offset them?

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:16 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

How would you re-drill them? I don't know how off they are, I won't bother checking until I know I can get them, there is no reason to.

Anyway I'm looking for something like this.




**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:20 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

I was thinking your were tryin to rotate the stock cam gears, much like adjustable cam gears move, but you cant because there is a dowel pin. I thought you needed a new place for the dowel pin to be, hence why I suggested drilling.

I have no idea how you would use those keys.. Maybe Im just too out of it.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:32 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC%2D3690936&N=700+115&autoview=sku

The one's you linked to are not for our cams.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:39 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

I know they are not for our cams. If they were I wouldn't have posted this thread. They are actually the V-8 version of what I am using to degree my Daytona's cam.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:50 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Well the ones I linked are what you are looking for and will work with our stock cam gears.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 07:57 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Those ones will work? I saw those in my MP book, but I really don't understand how they work.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 08:00 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

You drill the original hole bigger to the DIA of the offset key, you then insert the offset key you want that will degree the cam you want(make sure the direction is also what you want) and put it in. You just have to figure out which way you want to secure it to the cam gears. I can draw you up a little diagram if you want of how they work.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 08:10 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Awesome, have you ever used those on our cars? Just wondering if the pin diameter is the same.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/19/06 08:52 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Maybe it's just me, but I initially had trouble visualizing this.
Skip reading the rest of my post if you already understood how an offset woodruff key works

Basically, forget the dowel pin we use to lock the gear to the cam.
Think of a half-moon cut out of the camshaft. You then have a "key",
also shaped like a half-moon that drops into that machined slot in
the camshaft.

Like this:



So then, you can have a "regular key", a simple half-moon, that would
align with a slotted cam gear at 0 degrees.

Like this:



But, if you wanted to "move the slot", you could machine a specially
offset key like so:



That way, the half moon drops in just as before, but the exposed part that lines up with the cam gear is shifted over.


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
12/19/06 09:10 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

After you get digits offsets in the bolt head should cover them But to be on the safe side take a center punch and stake the edges in the 4 quadrants or 6 or 10 ever how many times you want this will keep them from shifting. Also if you mic the offset bushings and they are .500 get a 7/16 bit to drill the hole you don't want any slop in the system. Take it slow and don't rush. a .500 drill bit will always drill slightly larger because of flex in the bit and or metal shavings eroding metal you want as you drill. reamers are cheap so are stepped drill bits when you compare them to the price of a new head or engine.

gtluke
(Fegbasket)
12/19/06 10:12 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

i never understood why this wasn't a more popular question.
there should be 5 dowel holes in our cam gears, or someone willing to drill out stockers.
straight up, +2, +4, -2, -4
that how the cam gear is on my mustang.
pick your hole and you get your cam timing.
though, i've seen a thousand dsm's with "cam gears yo" but i've never seen anyone assemble an engine with a degree wheel or ever move the cam gear off "0"
i even like to ask the owners what moving the gears + or - does to the power and they never know :P


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 12:30 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

or someone willing to drill out stockers.



Oh Curtis, new job for you buddy .

I think the reason is simple, people will work on their cars for countless hours tuning them, trying to get rid of their knock problems, and trying to make more power; but having to use a dial indicator and a degree wheel is too much work . Honestly, the truthful anwser most people don't understand how important it is and some, like me, are worried about using adjustable cam gears.

I'll be honest though I owned a degree wheel, the adapter you need to do a turbo dodge, offset cam keys, everything but a dial indicator for a couple years before I just decided a couple weeks ago to buy a dial indicator and finally degree it.

One of the biggest ricer mods ever!


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 06:12 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

You drill the original hole bigger to the DIA of the offset key, you then insert the offset key you want that will degree the cam you want(make sure the direction is also what you want) and put it in. You just have to figure out which way you want to secure it to the cam gears. I can draw you up a little diagram if you want of how they work.



i tried some chevy ones and the dowel is a little bit bigger on the chevys than the dsm. i planned to drill out the hole in the cams and put chevy dowels in. another option is finding some with smaller holes.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 08:25 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Question!

I am trying to figure out another issue. I can understand how this would work for a engine with a single cam gear. But, with dual overhead cams, I see a problem. If the cam gears have teeth and the belt has teeth, and the gears are a set distance apart, then you can only degree the cams one tooth at a time. So, it seems to me that you would need to be very careful or you could mess up the belt tension between the gears, and the cams would rotate after you lined them up.

I see the same problem with the adjustables, but at least you could change the degree a bit. I guess my overall though is that you may not get them exactly where you want.

Am I not understanding something?


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 08:37 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

It doesn't move the cam gear in the timing belt. It moves the cam inside the head forward or back while the gear stays in the same space. Hence degreeing the CAM, not the cam gear.

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
12/20/06 08:48 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Adjusting the 5.0's and chevy's have been a secret to some for ever. Lots of the guys will buy a motorsport agjustable set-up and install it straight up. Luke if I'm wrong yell but If you retard the cams 4 degrees the power band rises and if you advance the cams the power banc drops. For a 5.0 I can't remember how much I think it was about 150 to 200 rpms per degree. With that said. Advancing a street car with bigger turbos would help with bottom end grunt and retarding a track car to pull top end would help.


Now for doing it on ours

Buy the chevy kit and drill out the gears You'll also have to enlarge the hole for a same size dia. chevy dowel. Most cam companies like lunati or comp that do alot of chevy stuff will have chevy dowels. Or use a stepped dowel pin mosted stepped dowels are made so they can't come out large on the inside small on the outside. With this it will be oposite. When I installed my crowers I didn't get any dowels so I cut a metric bolt (grade 8)to work. Not the thread but the un threaded section below the head. They've been in there for 3 years so I guess it worked. Chevys are standard and american so I I would bet a 5/16, 1/4 or 3/8 inch grade eight would work. Next time I see a set on the shielf I'll pick a set up and see what happens.


strokin4dr
(fighting them with a large needle)
12/20/06 08:50 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

One of the biggest ricer mods ever!




WTF?!? Why?


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 08:55 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

using a bolt might work on a dsm but i assure you that shit wouldnt fly on a solid roller cam domestic. im not sure i would use a bolt even in a dsm. that same hardware store you bought the bolt from more than likely carries hardened dowel pins as well.

moving the cams around to 'move' your power band can be helpful but another reason to degree in the cams is to make sure they are ground/installed on the proper lobe center.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 10:15 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

It doesn't move the cam gear in the timing belt. It moves the cam inside the head forward or back while the gear stays in the same space. Hence degreeing the CAM, not the cam gear.




DOH!

I really shouldn't post after a just rolled out of bed.

There is one thing that I do know might be a problem. Our cam gears are very brittle. I bent one of mine just using it as handle to pull off the head. I gripped it along with the water neck. I don't notice it until I got it all back together and noticed the gear had a wobble. I removed the gear and then tried to straighten it by gently pressing against a flat surface. A crack appeared on one of the spokes.

I have also seen a bunch of shattered gears at the local u-pick.

I would be worried that any work on the gear itself would cause damage.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
12/20/06 11:48 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

Next time I see a set on the shelf I'll pick a set up and see what happens.


That a boy!

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/14/07 12:07 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Quote:

Well the ones I linked are what you are looking for and will work with our stock cam gears.




How do those bushings work with our cam gears? I understand degreeing a camshaft, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how those bushings would accomplish it.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/14/07 02:07 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

you drill out the hole in the stock gear to fit one of those bushings into it, the bushing then effectively moves the dowel hole so the gear is either advanced or retarded a certain amount.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/14/07 02:38 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

Ok, I get it now. Thanks.

Gordian79
(teh Gaugemaster)
01/14/07 11:23 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

I used to do this with toyota 3tc motors until cam gears were made for the 3tc.all keys work either + or - like a 2deg key you can use as a +2 or -2 depends which way you install key.I think its a waste of time on a 4g63 since cam gears are available.

Rausch
(Rock Star Status)
01/14/07 11:33 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

this would be a good alternative to cam gears if you were positive of exactly what changes you needed to make. but given every car is different, and i'm sure all cams aren't equally centered on the lobes the same, cam gears seem to offer a much better alternative. what if you change cams? granted you could swap bushings, but what if your ideal point is between say 2*-3*??? then which one do you use...you see where i'm going with this. it is a nice alternative though.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/15/07 12:16 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

First off you have to measure your center line before you start anything. When I did my Daytona the cam was centerlined at 118*, I used a 5* offset key, which is 10* on the cam, it was then the 108* that I wanted. If you know what you are doing you shouldn't have to do it more than once; measure it put in the offset bushing (double check if you want), then put it back together. Also if your centerline is only off by 1* on the CRANK changing it wouldn't make a difference power wise. Oh and if you do change cams, cam gears are worth what $5-$10, you already have the bushings from the last time. For me it's the price difference, not worrying about the bolts slipping, and the cam gear breaking.

Rausch
(Rock Star Status)
01/15/07 01:22 AM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

i guess you make a good case. i was looking at it more from an advancing/retarding standpoint. i.e: making those adjustments depending on your set up to extract a bit more power after centerlining the cams. but you do make a good case none the less.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
01/27/07 09:08 PM
Re: Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

So has anybody tried those bushings yet? I'm interested in it but having a few reservations about how well they would work. First, is there enough room to drill that hole in the cam gear bigger without hitting the center bolt hole? Second, if you put the bushing in there, will the center bolt hold it in place or do you need to find another way to secure it? And third, if the center bolts holds it in place, will the bolt still be able to seat firmly against the cam gear, or will the bushing be too thick and leave a gap?


Contact Us | Privacy statement GalantVR-4.org

Generated in 0.008 seconds in which 0.006 seconds were spent on a total of 4 queries. Turbo powered.


Hertz's Galant VR-4 Page