tektic
(Senior Member)
10/21/15 03:02 PM
trans work necessary for 450hp

So I have a 93 awd dsm trans and was thinking about the evo 3 gear set. Would that be enough to handle 450 with my current soutbend clutch. Might need the spider gear upgrade too right?

donniekak
(Member ++)
10/21/15 03:10 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

With a 93 any of the small 3-4 hub/slider gears will be an upgrade. You should already have a double synchro second. A 4-spider with an aftermarket cross shaft, or welded diff would be a good idea if you launch the car.

89Patches
(I <3 AMS)
10/21/15 03:51 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

If you do a refresh Bearings/synchros and shim it tighter and upgrade the center diff I see no problem holding 450whp. Although that's assuming the gear set you have is in good shape.

donniekak
(Member ++)
10/21/15 05:09 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

The 1993-1999 large synchro 3-4 hub/slider explodes at that power level.

pot
(It's a twee shaker----choot him choot him)
10/21/15 06:06 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

I'd like to add if your considering upgrading to any of the Evo III gears start your shopping now. They are getting really hard to find. I spoke to Josh at JNZ and they are NLA.

turbofonz
(Member +)
10/21/15 09:19 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Driving style, clutch setup and fluid are also very important for power handling.

EMX5636
(Carbon Fiber Cage)
10/21/15 09:32 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

In my opinion, Evo 3 gears aren't really any stronger in real life. Donnie has it right though, late 92-up second gear, 91-early 92 3/4 setup, fresh bearings and a good shim job will hold you over. 4-spider or Welded definitely if you will be launching/rowing through gears.

car_guy
(Junior Member)
10/23/15 08:45 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

How many people on here have done the rebuild themselves, and how difficult would you say it is? I read the Vfaq and it doesn't seem that hard. Don't really need any special tools, just a press. Also, where is the best place to get all the upgraded parts you guys are talking about, double synchro 2nd, 4 spider gear upgrade, evo 3 gear set (or at least 5th)?

prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
10/23/15 08:57 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Good question now in days.

As for a good trans that will hold power, don't forget how critical the clutch is for keeping a trans in one piece. A bad or poorly operating clutch will kill syncros and gears.


EMX5636
(Carbon Fiber Cage)
10/23/15 10:21 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting car_guy:

How many people on here have done the rebuild themselves, and how difficult would you say it is? I read the Vfaq and it doesn't seem that hard. Don't really need any special tools, just a press. Also, where is the best place to get all the upgraded parts you guys are talking about, double synchro 2nd, 4 spider gear upgrade, evo 3 gear set (or at least 5th)?




You also need to shim the gear stacks, using feeler gauges, solder method, etc. As far as gears and such, JNZ Tuning has everything you need except for the Evo3 stuff. It's all been discontinued, and you will definitely have to do some digging for used stuff, or absolute trenching for NOS (new original stock) last I checked.

Also, Prove_it also hit a nail on the head. You will wear out synchros if the clutch isn't disengaging properly. And torque rating will come into play as well. I love my twin, but it's not for everyone. I know a lot of guy that still get by with a street or 6-puck disk, and a heavy single plate up to 550-600whp. Just need to properly set it up. Also as a side note, I recommend against a sprung hub, when using a puck style clutch. The aggressive engagement tends to wear the springs and the center hub out fairly quickly.


diambo4life
(Member)
10/23/15 11:53 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting turbofonz:

Driving style, clutch setup and fluid are also very important for power handling.





This. I would have to say in my years of dsm driving, I have only broken one shift fork, never broken a hub and slider, broken several center diffs and what I mostly do is pull the gears off of third. I also normally run stock trannies. I use Lucas in the GVR4, my old Talon used mostly Valvoline.


tektic
(Senior Member)
02/07/17 07:51 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

I have my rebuilt trans and have a 4 spider diff on the way. I'm going to need to shim everything.

When checking the shaft and center diff pre-load the races should pop right out of the flat center case piece? I didn't try to get them out yet. The solder goes between that case and the race right? Where do the shims go?


iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
02/07/17 08:53 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Yes that is where you put the solder, and the shims go in the same location.

tektic
(Senior Member)
02/08/17 04:56 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Figured. OK thanks for the confirmation!

diambo4life
(Member)
02/13/17 12:04 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

They all break....lol.

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
02/14/17 10:27 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting diambo4life:

They all break....lol.




The only solution is the most difficult... drivermod.

I've got my stock gearbox (worn syncros, gvr4 first gear) and I'm making... I'd say more than 450... It hasn't died yet I don't launch the car in first, but otherwise I'm not terribly kind to it.


donniekak
(Member ++)
02/15/17 09:33 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

It's highway pulls that end up killing them.

tektic
(Senior Member)
02/15/17 11:47 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

I definitely loosened up my last trans downshifting to 4th at around 75 and adding 25# of boost.

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
02/17/17 02:33 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting donniekak:

It's highway pulls that end up killing them.




well 4th gear is weak, and without a trans cooler, I would definitely forecast bad things there. The truth is, 1st gear, center diff, and 4th are probably the three worst things in the stock gearbox... avoid them


idreamidrive
(Member +)
02/17/17 03:16 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Is there a way of attaching a trans cooler?

turbofonz
(Member +)
02/17/17 05:26 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting slugsgomoo:

well 4th gear is weak, and without a trans cooler, I would definitely forecast bad things there. The truth is, 1st gear, center diff, and 4th are probably the three worst things in the stock gearbox... avoid them




3rd gear rolls are what I avoid. 4th gear pull is just asking for it. Look at how small any gear on the trans is, then ask it to hold 400+ ft/lbs of torque, with absolute traction, and heavy load. They don't last. You have to change your driving style and what you do and don't do if you want your gearset to last at higher power.


G
(JDM Unit)
02/17/17 06:43 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

OP, don't you have to make 450hp first?

89Patches
(I <3 AMS)
02/17/17 09:25 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

If he has a 16G it's easy. Well after some very thought out calculations, ain't that right G?

G
(JDM Unit)
02/17/17 11:21 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Hell naw it ain't easy, maybe in canadalandia

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
02/18/17 02:21 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

My car makes 450whp. My TMZ/Southbend clutch and ER built trans seem to hold it all just fine.

DSM 1st, double cone 2nd, Evo3 double cone 3rd-4th, welded center diff, heavy duty shift rails, etc. Neo RHD fluid.


tektic
(Senior Member)
02/18/17 06:23 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting G:

OP, don't you have to make 450hp first?




My FP 68hta and e85 tuning should get me pretty close... but if the trans can't handle it what would have been the point?


badams
(Bungie Battery)
02/18/17 07:17 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

G should stick to his rust and peeps discussions.....

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
02/21/17 01:56 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting idreamidrive:

Is there a way of attaching a trans cooler?




You'll need to weld on some fittings for the drain & return, get a cooler, filter, pump, etc. The good news is, it's been done before, and it's just fab work. I think that people have decided that returning the fluid over the top of 4th seems to be the best bet.


tektic
(Senior Member)
03/03/17 05:51 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

So it's been over a month and I have gotten my diff back... they said it would take a week. Anyway.

Do I have to add atv when I measure the shim gap with solder? Also what's the torque spec? I need to find my manual..


Breakerrr
(Junior Member)
03/10/17 02:17 AM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp





You have to change your driving style and what you do and don't do if you want your gearset to last at higher power.



Elaborate please.


tektic
(Senior Member)
05/16/17 07:49 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

OK... another bearing shim question. It seems that the center diff isn't sitting straight in the case. I'm consistently getting measurements of 1.56mm and 1.67 or around there each time I check it. Point is side to side they are different each time. Now what. I have three shims I'm about to throw the smallest.14 and the biggest 1.5 in and call it a day.

Edit:
This seems wrong now... I used 3 smaller prices of solder and got an average of 1.45mm. So now it looks like I'm out of spec by .12mm. Wish I left out the second shim.

How much of a problem is this going to be? I don't want to take it apart again.


JamesFoster
(Infamous BMX Master)
05/22/17 08:57 PM
Re: trans work necessary for 450hp

Quoting turbofonz:

Driving style, clutch setup and fluid are also very important for power handling.




This.



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