G
(JDM Unit)
07/08/15 07:30 PM
EGT

I was thinking about mounting it in my unused o2 bung in the o2 housing with an adapter. It's not needed for tuning, just running to a gauge. Bad idea?










EMX5636
(Carbon Fiber Cage)
07/08/15 07:33 PM
Re: EGT

Your temps will be much different (lower) than pre-turbo, but if you don't really use it for anything, other than to look at that sweet JDM gauge face, then sure. It won't hurt anything.

G
(JDM Unit)
07/08/15 07:39 PM
Re: EGT

I wonder how much lower. We are talking what maybe 6"s or so from the normal runner location? Hey how did you know it was jdm. I'm having a hard time finding a 1/8" pt bung that can be welded to cast iron.

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
07/08/15 07:42 PM
Re: EGT

Tap the cast iron.

G
(JDM Unit)
07/08/15 09:41 PM
Re: EGT

I've done that in the past. Didn't last long.

prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
07/08/15 10:20 PM
Re: EGT

Temps will be far enough off to be useless as a tuning guide. I'm not sure how much though. I'd imagine a few hundred degrees though. Pre turbo has way more heat than post turbo, Turbo sucks up a lot of heat. Now if you do see the gauge push 1800* in the o2 housing your done.

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
07/09/15 12:15 AM
Re: EGT

My tapped 2g cast iron manifold has lasted well over a decade tapped for an EGT probe with no bung.

That said, I'm not planning to tap my FP manifold for one. Since I don't use EGT to tune like I did in '01, I'm just going to mount it down low in the o2 housing so my sweet JDM gauge doesn't go wasted.


iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
07/09/15 07:08 AM
Re: EGT

Well I tapped mine to the next largest pipe thread size, then inserted a steel bushing (male pipe thread outside, smaller female pipe thread inside) and put the sensor in that.

biglady112
(or what)
07/09/15 06:19 PM
Re: EGT

Tapping a cast manifold is the wrong way to do it. The right way is to tig weld the bung on with nickel. With that said I have used mild steel wire in my mig welder on four different manifolds and have non had issues.

Mounting it post turbo is significantly cooler than preturbo. 500-800 cooler. Even in the turbine housing it is 300-500 cooler. The ideal location is 2-4" from the exhaust port . I use and trust egt's as much as any other data in my car. I run a sensor in each runner of the manifold however.


MellowVR4
(5" too short)
07/10/15 03:09 PM
Re: EGT

On my new Talon, It has an EGT on the turbo hotside, I thought that was a weird spot to put it.

GSTwithPSI
(A hole)
07/10/15 07:01 PM
Re: EGT

I'd mount it wherever it's convenient, especially if you aren't using it to really monitor engine conditions. I drilled and tapped the cast O2 housing, and mine seems to be holding up fine.

Using EGT as a tuning guide is outdated, IMO. Most people used EGTs when they were a cheaper and easier alternative to WBO2s back in the day. Nowadays, for what it costs for an EGT gauge/sensor, you'd be better off running a WB in each runner if you're really concerned about each cylinder is doing.

A 12.0 AFR is a 12.0 AFR on every engine. Pick the ideal AFR for your engine and you're off and running.

A 1250* EGT is a 1250* EGT on every engine, but there's no ideal EGT.

Optimal EGT will be different for every single application, and it typically peaks around stoich. That makes monitoring for peak temps pretty useless for tuning AFR because nobody wanting to make power is at stoich. Since temp ends up dropping off on both sides of stoich (until knock occurs), you'd need to figure out if you are on the rich or lean side. That's why I've heard tuning in the old days referred to as an art...Since not every kid who has $545 bucks and reads the ECMlink Wiki could do it. EGTs provide a good overall reference when coupled with a WB, and are also a very good way to verify cylinders are performing the same across the board when stuck in each runner.

A WBO2 will give you true AFR. A EGT can give you relative AFR. That should make it pretty apparent why few people are relying heavily on EGTs for tuning these days. Our generation is spoiled with the superiority of cheap and awesome technology like the WBO2. I basically use my EGT to fill the "other" hole in my gauge pod just like Wop


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
07/10/15 07:24 PM
Re: EGT

I would actually get some other, more useful gauge to replace my EGT, but I can't find anymore of the old style Defi link meters like mine (which is what I like due to the matching lighting). I had to get my oil pressure gauge from the Yahoo Japan auctions. So the EGT stays...

GSTwithPSI
(A hole)
07/10/15 07:37 PM
Re: EGT

IDK, EGT might not be great for tuning, but it's good to get an overall idea how hot the motor is running.

Since I know where it typically sits at cruise, WOT, etc...I know where it shouldn't be. That's pretty useful at a glance to me. It doesn't matter so much where the probe is placed if you're just using it for a general baseline to monitor engine conditions, which is kinda what I was suggesting to G.


biglady112
(or what)
07/10/15 07:46 PM
Re: EGT

Nearly every serious race car(especially salt flat car) runs either individual egt sensors, cylinder head temperature sensors or individual wideband sensors that I have ever seen. If all you play with is your extremely basic and unimpressive 200hp Mitsubishi then of course you would think using technology so "old" is worthless. There are ideal temperatures in every application depending on fuel, boost, no boost. And if you have a powerful enough data logger it makes tuning and diagnosing much easier and more reliable than a wideband could ever be as all they read is burned fuel. We had a bad misfire and could not figure it out until we were able to log the egt as our wideband readout was lying and displaying a smooth and clean air/fuel curve. It ended up being a wiring issue we would not have found without the individual cylinder temperature data. Of course if you don't understand something you will criticize it and if you don't know how to use something you will question it.

Keep using your latest and greatest technology while all the fast cars stay stuck in the stone age with what actually works.


GSTwithPSI
(A hole)
07/10/15 08:14 PM
Re: EGT

Oh, well well. If it isn't old Steve again schooling us all up

You've proven time and time again you have no clue what you're talking about. Your english and sentence structure is horrid, as well as every build I've ever seen you solely create. I can link to dozens of posts where you make yourself look like an idiot, not to mention the vast number of posts where I make you look like an idiot. Don't go reread my post, or even try to comprehend what was written. You've shown time and time again factual information is simply too hard for your feeble mind to grasp. In the interest of keeping this thread from getting closed like the last one you shit up, I'll stop here.

I lied...Edit:
Quoting biglady112:

We had a bad misfire and could not figure it out until we were able to log the egt as our wideband readout was lying and displaying a smooth and clean air/fuel curve.




Case and point: ^ This is scientifically impossible. No wideband on the face of the earth that's worth a fuck would "lie" during a misfire. That's what a WB does, it reads AFR. So you wired shit wrong (I'm assuming), and the EGT bailed you out. Congrats. How a WB with a wiring problem displays a smooth clean AFR is beyond me. It sounds like you're talking out of your ass, per the usual.


biglady112
(or what)
07/10/15 08:51 PM
Re: EGT

Broken injector wiring deep in a wiring harness. Look dude, you can slander all you want, we race, we produce. Plain and simple. You can hate me all you want. Your join dates and your post counts do not add up. You spend far too much time whoring yourself online versus doing something with your car. Which is fine. I have raced all over the country and gone fast everywhere. You can't even make it 1320ft with your car.

You keep ricing out and I will continue slutting it up with the ugliest, dirtiest and most whacked out cars I can build. Until you can at least run a time or produce a dyno sheet that at least meets what the average DSM'er can do with your setup, you will not get any respect. I should probably just ignore your whole existence. Because there is no changing your mind. Numerous 800-1000hp four cylinders obviously don't impress you. We are not going to see eye to eye as no matter what myself or my friends do seem to be worth a shit to someone who can't even run a 13 second quarter mile. You have zero proof. I have time slips and video to back up all of our shinanegans. Fatfucking112 out. Ignore mode on.


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
07/10/15 08:54 PM
Re: EGT

I've seen a lot of fast cars. And I've seen that a lot of them use individual EGT sensors for each cylinder. And I fully understand why. My car is an old 400+ whp Mitsu street car, so I really don't need it, IMO.

I'm not trying to be the fastest guy out there. I'm just trying to enjoy a hobby enough to put a smile on my face.


biglady112
(or what)
07/10/15 09:16 PM
Re: EGT

I am as well mark. Some folks want to be negative at all times. We enjoy racing together, going fast, helping each other out and generally having a good time. The only issues myself or friends seem to have are on these stupid forums. I bend over backwards to support what everyone does. If we are not having fun it is not worth it. And the forums are just not as fun anymore. There is no reason why everyone could not get along. We clearly all have the same common interest.

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
07/10/15 10:17 PM
Re: EGT

Can you two guys chill on the attacks please? In this case you are talking about two different approaches I think (though I am not a tuning expert by any stretch of the imagination). A WBO2 is sufficient for the street, but a race engine trying to tune for the most power per cylinder can benefit from the individual cylinder detail. I have seen guys (road race cars) that tune individual cylinders using either method.

G
(JDM Unit)
07/10/15 11:03 PM
Re: EGT

My egt was installed over 10 years ago before these new digital wb's with lsu 4.9 sensors existed. Which is what I recently upgraded to. I also got a new manifold & don't want to tap it. I love my sweet jdm egt gauge and want to keep it working even though it's pointless for tuning. It's a rare piece of a complete matching set of gauges. I guess what I was getting at was if the sensor would be damaged in the o2 housing and if the temp difference was going to really be that different. I guess I could wait & see how close the temps are after I install it. Since it's threaded it's not permanent. I believe a mild steel bung would weld fine to cast iron. If I end up going that route I should probably put it where all 4 runners meet instead of on just one of the runners? Furthermore that empty o2 bung hole wants me to stick something in it. Giggity.

biglady112
(or what)
07/11/15 12:05 AM
Re: EGT

If you want it to function correctly and work to your advantage, 2-4" from the cylinder head. Anything else and it is just a pretty gauge. No true function. Your car, mount it where you see fit. You know where I stand. Function over form. One collective point of wideband data is pointless. As is a single EGT sensor. Either way perturbo is it. End of story. Post turbo will be hot but, drastically reduced temperatures compared the correct location. 500* or more. No damage should occur unless large debris hits the sensor. I.E. Turbine wheel.

GSTwithPSI
(A hole)
07/11/15 10:36 AM
Re: EGT

Quoting biglady112:

Broken injector wiring deep in a wiring harness. Look dude, you can slander all you want, we race, we produce. Plain and simple.




Once again, it's not slander, your facts just don't add up. If you actually think about what post before you post it, you'd realize you're talking out of your ass. Broken injector wiring would leave you with a malfunctioning injector 9 times out of 10. Malfunctioning injectors don't spray fuel, and therefore would cause a lean condition in the corresponding cylinder. Narrowing down which cylinder shouldn't be too terribly difficult if you know what you're looking for (ailbet, I freely admit the EGT in that cylinder probably made this blatantly obvious right off the bat). It doesn't matter if your WB is in the downpipe or the runner itself; if it didn't pick up a shitty injector, either your WB is shit, it's hooked up wrong, or you weren't looking close enough at the data it was collecting.

You have your opinions, and rightfully so. Why don't you try backing them up in a way that doesn't make you seem completely ignorant?



Quoting biglady112:

One collective point of wideband data is pointless.




I think 99.99% of people who tune their own cars would disagree; seeing as that's how nearly everyone not racing on the salt flats has their car configured. Not many of us here are building "serious race cars"; which I believe was one of Mark's last points in case you missed it.

Don't misconstrue an opinion backed by factual information with negativity. I came into this thread with my own opinion backed up by factual information, followed shortly after by you talking shit about my car and telling us stories about everyone else's cars but your own (per the usual). Facts are still facts whether you choose to accept them or not.

My post count is probably high for the short time I've been here, and I assure you the vast majority are filled with helpful information that probably helped somebody here in this community.


Jesus_Negros
(Unempowered ADMIN)
07/11/15 10:49 AM
Re: EGT

My dd has an egt gauge and it's only about 130hp and 200ft lbs of torque.

prove_it
(my racist jokes aren't actually funny)
07/11/15 11:26 AM
Re: EGT

Ah, just another Saturday on the ORG.

One of these days, we should all get together and sit in a coffee/donut shop from 6am to 10am and bitch and moan, just like all the old guys do.


Fish
(Member)
07/11/15 12:11 PM
Re: EGT

click

minneSNOWta
(Member +)
07/11/15 04:31 PM
Re: EGT



mitsuturbo
(Banthony )
07/15/15 10:08 AM
Re: EGT

Quoting turbowop:

My tapped 2g cast iron manifold has lasted well over a decade tapped for an EGT probe with no bung.

That said, I'm not planning to tap my FP manifold for one. Since I don't use EGT to tune like I did in '01, I'm just going to mount it down low in the o2 housing so my sweet JDM gauge doesn't go wasted.




Pretty much the same thing i had to do. I wasn't putting holes in the FP manifold. No way, no how.
I just tapped the stainless 2.5" FP o2 housing just under the o2 bung. I figure if there is ever an issue, it's pretty simple to just weld the hole shut and eliminate it.



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