MellowVR4
(5" too short)
11/24/13 07:33 PM
Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

So today I took my car out for a drive, Doing a few WOT pulls and what not. I noticed that my WB gauge was reading at like 13.5 while I was getting on it, Granted that today was about 25 degrees outside with the windchill even colder, Could this cause the car the lean out cause its so cold out? Didn't hit knock at all or anything like that. Just wondering if this is normal in colder weather.

AnotherNewb
(flutterdumper)
11/24/13 09:14 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Cold air = denser air thats why it seems like your car runs better when its cold out because its getting 'more' air. Depending on your tuning set up and a working O2 sensor, your ECU should compensate with its short term and long term fuel trims, just gotta drive it a little bit so it can learn.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
11/24/13 09:16 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Yeah she's liking the cold air alright

4thStroke
(Spence knows tools)
11/27/13 12:31 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Fuels trims dont affect AFR under open loop.

Depending on the tuning system and what you are using to compensate for air temperature, your air temperature compensation may not be working correctly.


bmxr152
(Member)
11/28/13 10:47 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Also if your running a 180 t stat it might not get over 190 which is learning mode i know here it has been.in the 20s in ther morn ing and i have been running really lean until i adjusted my coolant offset on dsmlink. My coolant temps were 175/180. So i can say yes it could possibly happen. It stumped me for a while. Fuel pressure was good. Injectors good. Everything except i would just lean out under light to medium load.

manikbastrd
(A Negro's Savior)
12/05/13 03:25 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Quoting MellowVR4:

So today I took my car out for a drive, Doing a few WOT pulls and what not. I noticed that my WB gauge was reading at like 13.5 while I was getting on it, Granted that today was about 25 degrees outside with the windchill even colder, Could this cause the car the lean out cause its so cold out? Didn't hit knock at all or anything like that. Just wondering if this is normal in colder weather.




If I am not mistaken, usually aren't WOT pulls closed loop (or open loop I always confuse the two) meaning that the settings that are dialed in are the settings that are dialed in, unless your tuning software receives input from an IAT?


MellowVR4
(5" too short)
12/05/13 04:31 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I think its at open loop, not sure either tho.

diambo4life
(Member)
12/06/13 10:40 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

"Closed" ECU depends on O2 sensor feedback to control AFR. Open - ECU looks at predefined maps for load/rpm. So when you are at WOT, you are in open loop although when I used to have dsmlink V2.5, I ran my Talon in forced open loop. This helped me sort of force the ECU to run the car leaner (where it normally uses O2 sensor feedback) nd my gas mileage especially on E85 was greatly improved. Another reason your car could run leaner in much cooler AITs is colder air = more airflow per unit time and if your fuel pump or fuel system can not handle the airflow (if you were already at it's limit) the vehicle will run leaner.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 10:53 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Bringing this one back because I have a few questions.

First: Would not enough voltage feeding the wideband make the reading inaccurate?

second: Would a miscalibrated sensor show a 13.5 at WOT with out any knock?

Reason why I'm asking these questions is because I've been DD my galant and have noticed this going on with my WB. Originally When I got tuned Running the big 16g everything was fine and the wideband would read 11.5 AT WOT at about 17/22 psi with 750cc's. Now that I have 1000cc with a 60trim at about 17-18psi Im getting 13.5 at WOT??? I have to confess that When I switched to this turbo in I didn't take my wideband off to recalibrate it. Do I have to? As far as I know Im still not getting knock, I have not logged anything but I will probably later today. Any help would be great! Thank you.


ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/19/14 11:13 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

To put it simply it sounds like you need to retune it. If your wideband is the type that does free air calibration then it wouldn't hurt to do it.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 11:22 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I was afraid of that. Do you think when I add meth 50/50 to the mix I could get the 11.5 without a tune? not trying to cheap out but

ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/19/14 12:00 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I'm not sure I don't use meth, anytime you change your injectors a retune is most likely in order not only that you changed to a bigger turbo. You know the turbo is flowing more than your 16g because it's running leaner with bigger injectors, your probably gonna have to add more fuel.

What are you tuning with?


MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 12:02 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

V3 Lite

ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/19/14 12:08 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Should be no problem to dial in then.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 12:12 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Im gonna try and do this my self, Don't wanna cough up 450 for a retune .

Going to try to recalibrate it first, if that doesn't work then Ill try and add more fuel on link. Im gona SOUND stupid but I don't know how to add fuel lol, Have to read those wiki things again.


ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/19/14 12:25 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Don't beat yourself up, read it till your eyes bleed and take small steps. Make small fuel changes and see if the AFR's respond the way you want them to, it might take some time but eventually you'll get it.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 01:18 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Yea man, I just get weird when I get to the tuning part. don't know if im doing it right or not I know I can get used to it, but just have to read read and READ...

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/19/14 02:19 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

What type of air metering are you using?

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 02:33 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Just a 2g maf.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/19/14 09:05 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

So, When I wanna add fuel do I just go to the fuel settings and add % on the RPM'S which im running lean on? That would be the obvious I think

diambo4life
(Member)
05/20/14 08:03 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Yes. Wish we could view the log. It could be a fuel restriction problem too.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/20/14 08:09 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Ill try and upload it tonight.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/20/14 08:15 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

seems like im getting like 2.0 degrees of knock at lower rpm's. I think I just need to lower timing in those areas.
I can do this in the timing tables while the car is off but in the on position, and go to the direct access while the car is running?

Also when I did a slight pull, my WB read 13.0 but link read 11.5? not sure what to believe.


ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/20/14 11:46 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Quoting MellowVR4:

So, When I wanna add fuel do I just go to the fuel settings and add % on the RPM'S which im running lean on? That would be the obvious I think




You could add fuel by changing the appropriate hertz sliders or you can add fuel by using the fuel sliders. You should really focus on one problem at a time, I don't know what your timing looks like but if you load up 2g maps you should be fine load the octane and timing tables. You can also lower your boost to see if the knock with go away so you don't have to mess with the tune. What wideband are you using and how old is it!

It sounds like your wide band is going bad that would be your 1st problem to fix in my book. No more WOT pulls until you figure it out, I have an AEM wideband and the symptoms your describing is the exact thing my wideband was doing.

I purchased a new wideband and it fixed the problem the car runs ten times better, for what it's worth I'm using narrow band simulation with my wideband.


MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/20/14 06:13 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Im using the innovative mtxL I think? its going on 2yrs old now.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/21/14 11:42 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Just ordered a new sensor, should have it today, and try it to see if its my sensor. im sure I probably need a new one anyway.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/21/14 10:52 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

update:

Put a new sensor in caibrated and good to go, will see how she does in the morning. Also I cleaned my mess of wires from accessories going to my battery, Put a remote fuse block didnt know why I didnt think of that before


ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/23/14 01:43 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Is your wide band and data logging data matching now?

turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
05/23/14 01:46 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

What sensor does it use? It's kind of nice that my PLX uses a Bosch sensor that I can pick up a block away at the local Autozone for ~$50.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/23/14 02:11 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Yeah I got the 17014 bosch from a parts store. Put it on, and still getting the same thing. Im gona look today at the logs once I do one to see. In the end I think my old sensor was fine.

ghostinthevr4
(Likes Poetry)
05/23/14 04:14 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

That sucks that that wasn't the problem. You should probably post a log on the link forums someone there can probably help you out.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/23/14 04:39 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I always forget how to do that, gonna have to google it!

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
05/23/14 04:43 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Its probably my timing and fuel settings. which I REALLY don't know what im getting my self into when it comes to that. I tried to log it and see where I was hitting even the slightest knock, Adjusted it, seemed to work but then I just hit it in a different area. I'm just confused at this point.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/15/16 08:39 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Bringing this back to life with another issue im having with my wide band...

So My wideband has been acting weird lately. car starts fine, I let the wideband do its heating cycle before starting the car and when I start driving the car and make a pull the wideband either goes wacky with the numbers and then it goes to E8 mode which means its a bad sensor, or it goes to 22.4 whether im in idle or on the throttle. Pull over turn the car off and restart it and sometimes the heating(HTR)cycle doesn't seem to go away on the wideband until I start driving it again, then it most likely does what it does previously. Since I have it setup in link to simulate the o2 with the wideband so when it goes into E8 mode its like my car doesn't have any o2 signal and make my car run like shit... I've changed my sensor in the past because of this same issue and still doesn't really change anything.

Would I be better off if I just run a standard o2 sensor in the stock location and get my signal normally and have my wideband reading the A/F instead of it doing both simulating and reading numbers? Im just trying to get all of the bugs out before I go get tuned next month.

Any advice would help me out!

Thanks in advanced.


transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
06/15/16 08:44 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

have you checked the wiring? make sure its not a bad connection. i had an AEM that had a weird connection in the back of the gauge and it would short out from time to time. got an innovate and rewired it and haven't had an issue since. also what wideband. sorry i did not read the thread at all this is the first thing i read.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/15/16 09:59 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I have a innovate also, Ill check the wiring to make sure their is no issue their.

transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
06/15/16 10:37 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

yeah just go through and check all the connections and also check where the wiring goes through the firewall and make sure the grommet is in there and hasn't fallen out or ripped and cut the wires.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/15/16 10:40 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Good points! Thanks dude

transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
06/15/16 11:10 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

no worries, best of luck.

GSTwithPSI
(A hole)
06/15/16 11:12 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

How old is the sensor?

FYI, you can typically pick up new sensors at AutoZone for under $50 bucks: click



MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/15/16 11:27 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Sensor is about a year old. I will be changing it out anyways before I get tuned, Like the day before.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/17/16 08:11 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Well, I checked all of my wires and all seems fine, nothing looks loose or anything like that. Calibrated the sensor and now its acting like normal. Not really sure why it was acting funny, But drove it to work today and its been good so far so we'll see.

Thanks for all help guys.


transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
06/17/16 09:35 AM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

nice, glad things are better. maybe the fiddling with wires is all she needed.

MellowVR4
(5" too short)
06/17/16 12:58 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

Yeah she is driving great right now, considering its not tuned on the current setup yet. I'm running about 20-23 psi but my timing I think is very conservative right now. So hopefully that's where my power will come to life. Shooting for over 400hp 450 would be great but we'll see.

transparentdsm
(I have to say something dumb Member)
06/17/16 02:18 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

cant wait to see the results. hope you put down some good numbers.

kumfasa
(Member)
06/17/16 08:37 PM
Re: Lean'er wideband #s in colder temps

I had a similar situation when I installed my Innovate WB. It worked well for about an hour and then just started to read full lean. I checked all the wiring as it was a fresh install and it all checked out. I pulled the sensor and tested it out of the exhaust with a rag soaked in brakeclean and it swept the full range of rich to lean??? I went through the calibration process one more time, re-installed it and it has been fine ever since. I still don't know why it misbehaved.


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