sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/14/09 07:58 AM
GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate/convert...

Stage 1 Weight Reduction:

Basic GVR4 stock parts (including engine) to eliminate/modify to reduce weight without compromising safety, emissions, driveability, or anything else "normal"...

1. ABS to non-abs - Click here for how to...

2. Power Steering to 1.8 manual rack, or simply remove all components

3. 4WS (new rear DSM subframe or block off)

4. Cruise Control to DSM 1.8 cable

5. Power Antenna to stubby or shaved/plugged

6. Power Seatbelt to 3 point harness conversion or simply stock lap belt

7. Sounds deadening material removal

8. Power mirror to standard lightweight mirror conversion

9. Aluminum driveshaft(s) installed

10. Stock to Carbon fiber/lightweight hood, fenders, trunklid

11. Stock to lightweight wheels

12. Foglight removal

13. Balance shaft removal

14. Eliminate stock heat shields

15. EGR elimination

16. Lightweight battery

17. Alarm system removal

18. Tool kit, jack and spare tire

19. Stock to lightweight seat conversion

20. Race/Lightweight steering wheel

21. Sunroof elimination (lexan etc)

22. Lightweight flywheel install

23. Intake manifold bracket removal

24. Stock speaker amplifier removal (stereo remains)

25. Wiring harnesses hacked of useless wires

26. Lightweight exhaust (titanium?)

27. Eliminate spoiler

28. Aluminum transfer case install (???)

29. Dashboard hacking/gutting

30. Aluminum/Scirocco Radiator install

31. '92 Center tail light section swap

32. Suspension - save about 25lbs converting to coilovers

33. Under Dashboard Mat elimination

34. Driver's side Motor mount hack





Stage 2 Weight Reduction:

Advanced weight reduction techniques that are "quote unquote" legal/acceptable to some who would still consider the car a daily driver. Many of these cross well over into Stage 3 to some...



1. A/C & all components

2. Heater core/lines

3. Emissions & all related

4. Aluminum bumper install or bumper elimination (some people do this on DD)

5. Timing Cover(s) elimination

6. Stereo and all components removed

7. Remove door crashbars

8. Exhaust down pipe only

9. Eliminate glovebox

10. Stock gas tank to fuel cell



Stage 3 Weight Reduction:

Purely for race intentions - these modifications do not appear daily driver mode at all and compromise everything a daily driver is...


1. Remove all seats except driver's seat

2. Remove interior panels, console, carpet, trim etc.

3. Dashboard removal

4. Lexan to replace all windows

5. Eliminate exhaust



HertzGalant VR4.org Administrator
(OneTitle to rule them all.)
07/14/09 10:12 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Factory amplifier in trunk (if 1991)

blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
07/14/09 10:19 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

1) Interior Wiring harness modification - Remove all ABS, door sensors, auto belt wiring, stereo wiring, heat, AC, relays etc. You will be surprised. I removed about 10 lbs from my evo doing that. I am sure you can do engine bay harness too...

2) Fuel tank - run fuel cell!

3) Dash support beam/ door support beams

How "race" do you want it?


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/14/09 11:11 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

how do you remove the heater core? Thats in the dash correct? so would you have to remove the entire dash before it can be done?

blacksheep
(Baraqsheep)
07/14/09 11:38 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Pretty sure dash has to come off although I havent done it in a gvr4, personally. You have to undo the two coolant lines running in/out the car on the firewall. Same for AC if you are pulling Evap.

sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/14/09 01:26 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Not sure about heater core - may want to keep if car overheats and turning on heater fan is only option...

Balance shafts gotta go


CarRacer
(Giant Sack of Ginger)
07/14/09 07:21 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Personally I'd keep the timing covers. No sense in letting a rock ruin your day.

I'd add the stock water/oil cooler as well as the water lines going to the turbo. It cleans things up a bunch.


BoostedAWD91
(Senior Member)
07/14/09 07:51 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

if u want to remove the heater core, u have to remove the entire dash. personally i would just leave it in unless its just a track car

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
07/14/09 07:57 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

One thing I would NOT eliminate.....A daily driver.

TakumiJr
(Member +)
07/14/09 11:36 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Front seats with some milk crates

sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/15/09 05:27 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Quoting CarRacer:

Personally I'd keep the timing covers. No sense in letting a rock ruin your day.






Myself (for about a year on 1746) as well as about 3 dsm friends have been running w/o timing covers for years. One friend rallied a 1g awd auto on several occasions and never had any problems...


1941Galant
(Will fight mice for food)
07/15/09 07:19 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

'89 underdash and glovebox will take a little weight off.

1990ggsxnj
(Member ++)
07/15/09 11:38 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Quoting sleepyvr4:

Quoting CarRacer:

Personally I'd keep the timing covers. No sense in letting a rock ruin your day.






Myself (for about a year on 1746) as well as about 3 dsm friends have been running w/o timing covers for years. One friend rallied a 1g awd auto on several occasions and never had any problems...




What do you gain out of doing this though??? Besides being able to change the belt without having to take it off.


324vr4
(manly-loud yet refined)
07/15/09 11:43 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

You can get close to 40lbs eliminating the sunroof too...and its at the TOP of the car where you don't want weight...haha ZAP

sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/15/09 12:39 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...






Besides being able to change the belt without having to take it off.




Exactly. Change that baby when you change your plugs and oil lol...


throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/15/09 12:58 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

click

click

both threads are really good. maybe someone can come up with a list and put things in order of what should be done first. things that are free and things that no one would mind removing. then things for race cars and then things that cost money... also things that are dangerous to remove/chnage.

after that list is compiled another thread can be started as maybe a sticky? i might be interested in starting this list when i get some extra time. hopefully someone else can start it too.

what you guys think?


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/15/09 06:49 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

that's what we can compile here on this thread -

how about 3 sections:

1. basic crap to remove that does not affect driveability or emission laws or safety etc...

2. advanced weight reduction techniques that are "quote unquote" legal/acceptable to some who would still consider daily driver

3. all out race purpose weight reduction mods


I'll compile it up top on this thread...

feedback appreciated - I'll keep adding ideas...


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/15/09 07:42 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

feel free to PM me new ideas - discrepancies can be posted in the thread for debate...

throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/15/09 08:08 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

sounds good to me...i want to come up with more sections to make it more specific maybe after we have a lot of stuff.

like

-safety(removing bumper supports, jack/spare tire etc)
-luxury(cruise, AC, heater core, some interior, PS, etc)
-things you can buy(bumpers, cf hood, cf trunk, flywheel, driveshaft, wheels, seets, under dash, balance shaft elim, glove box, antenna, seat belts/harness, etc)
-emissions(egr,charcoal canister, etc)
-things that prob only a track car would do that would change the car alot(lexon windows, as much interior as possible, etc)

there is absolutely nothing wrong with yours its just that i like to be very specific and this is the type of list i had in mind. it helps so that people know what list they can ignore and what list to look at.


throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/15/09 08:11 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

my bad man i didnt see your list . i like that stage idea. i say you make both cause the stage idea is cool and then if you want to just look right to a specific category you can look at what i had for categorys. know what i'm saying? i def like both tho. nice list

eviLntt
(eVIL_DNB)
07/16/09 01:11 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Aluminum radiator? How about switching out the the tail light center piece for one without lights in it (only the 92's?).

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/16/09 02:16 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Man, i just don't get it. I really don't get it. Why buy a rare VR4 if you are going to delete everything? Just buy a GSX or something, put a 4g63T in it, and delete everything from that one. The outcome is exactly thesame, the only difference is that you aren't fucking up another one from the 3000 rare vr4's....

Anyway, why would you seriously remove the timing covers?? They weigh almost nothing, and a small rock can be enough to f*ck everything up. Not everything is about weight, there's a bit of safety involved as well. Safety to keep your engine running, and what you are doing now is just dumb. If you didn't need timing covers, don't you think that they where never installed then? That's almost thesame as removing your valvecover for weight reduction....


Just my 0.02 $


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/16/09 05:19 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

If you remove the valve cover oil will spew everywhere

sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/16/09 05:33 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Quoting galantgti:

Man, i just don't get it. I really don't get it. Why buy a rare VR4 if you are going to delete everything? Just buy a GSX or something, put a 4g63T in it, and delete everything from that one. The outcome is exactly thesame, the only difference is that you aren't fucking up another one from the 3000 rare vr4's....

Anyway, why would you seriously remove the timing covers?? They weigh almost nothing, and a small rock can be enough to f*ck everything up. Not everything is about weight, there's a bit of safety involved as well. Safety to keep your engine running, and what you are doing now is just dumb. If you didn't need timing covers, don't you think that they where never installed then? That's almost thesame as removing your valvecover for weight reduction....


Just my 0.02 $




Listen gti - don't get your loincloth in a stiff over this - no one is saying that these mods have to be done. Some people have different interests with the car. This is simply a list of what one could do in order to reduce weight for obvious track reasons all while really making the car less leaky, replacing 20 year old parts, cleaning up that circus of an engine bay, etc. Tell you what - when I eliminate my timing cover I'll donate it to you - then you can put two on your car for added safety!!! You know people have actually had timing belts fail because the timing cover collected debris and eventually it ended up in the belt?!? That belt is moving so effin fast that the tiniest rock making contact with the belt is going to zing off into outer space - as opposed to actually traveling through a gear and the belt with the belt going 1,800rpm. We need a myth buster on this...


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/16/09 06:05 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Wasn't meant to be personal towards you


Quote:

Tell you what - when I eliminate my timing cover I'll donate it to you - then you can put two on your car for added safety!!!




You do that, always wanted a second timing cover. I'm going to glue it on the other one to make it stronger....


throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/16/09 07:12 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

hahaha you guys are funny.

galantgti--i totally agree with you. if you are going to be taring the car apart to where it can't be reversed, then use a gsx shell for that. most of the stuff one(the everyday vr4 owner) would do for weight reduction is easily reversable, so there is no reason you should hold back from those types of reductions. i try to keep things i eliminate...like power antenna, cruise, AC...and what not. i know i'll never reverse those things but i still hold onto them.

timing cover i dont think should be deleted, well at least lower section and thats the bigger of the 2. chances of something happening are slim but its a big chance. only way i would is if its a track car or i'm going to a show and i dont plan on doing either lol.clear cover will do me fine. i think it might be more weight tho haha. insignificant tho.

EDIT: just to clear up...nothing here was said with anger towards anyone. just friendly discussions/opinions. Don't want any wrong ideas.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/16/09 07:35 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

^Exactly what i meant, throughfaith323!!

As long as it is reversable, it doesn't matter. But when you start doing things that can't be reversed, you are doing something to a rare car ,that you shouldn't do. Take a GSX and do whatever you want to it, there are quite a few of them still around.

And like said above, nothing here was said with anger towards anyone. Just trying to keep a friendly discussion going, nothing else.


throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/16/09 07:49 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

yes any just in defense to Sleepy(not saying you were againt him) he wanted to make a list for weight reduction and you can't leave things out because there rare cars. thats why we came up with the sections idea.

i would really like to know how many vr4's are gone and out of the ones left... how many vr4's are owned by people that know what they got/ are on this board lol.

***please bno one run off on what i just said cause i don't want it to go off on a tangent. lol
thanks...Ed****


91GSR
(JONG)
07/16/09 09:23 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

the guy i bought my vr4 from had 3...thats right 3. the one i bought wasnt running and has basic mods (exhaust and an afc) and one he already had i think he said like 7 grand in the engine alone. he had another one over in richmond but no specifics on it. basically this post is just to say that a lot of people out there dont tear these cars apart, but the few that do really know what they are doing from what ive seen. i don't think any of us on this board, except for the few with vr4s that are true track beasts, would ever consider doing irreversable things to this car. i plan on making a lot of power with mine, but keeping the "unique-ness" and rarity of it. will be watching this thread develop as im very interested in things i can do like that

throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/16/09 11:52 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

^^ i was thinking that 91gsr... if you know what your doing i think its good to make a track car and reprisent.

conquesttsi
(Member)
07/16/09 12:19 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Thank you for this thread.

I have just about collected and am about to install all the aftermarket upgrades I wanted (turbo, fuel, ect...). The next thing I was looking at doing is weight reduction. Here comes the corny part...

I love my car and the history it has and would never want to do a mod to my car that is not 100% reversable. It's not a daily but I am not willing to sacrafice anything that makes the car what it is unless it's an overall improvment.

It's nice to have a guide to tell me what kind of things there are to take off or replace so I can do a bit of weight reduction without wrecking my car. As a newb to Galants I don 't know every inch of this car like some of you do so I found this very helpful.


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/16/09 02:24 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

No worries fellas and no offense taken at any point - however your concern is appreciated!!! I fell in love with these cars the moment I saw my first one at Carlisle in '01 or '02. I saw three that day and one was Harry's #3 - I even got video footage of all of them. I got lucky when I got my last one, and I just couldn't leave it alone over the years I had it. Well, I've had my time away - and I'm arming myself with ideas and I am coming back from retirement to demolish my old personal milestone 14b GVR4 record. That's it - no more no less. I also intend to grab the VR4 16g record while I'm at it this time. I want to keep car streetable - within reason and of course with sacrifices. Shep even kept his car plenty streetable for the longest time - so why not shoot for something? He runs 7's at over 190mph. And it's still a "car" - a really, really sinister vehicular, but still a car...

RedTwo
(Rangi Kiwi)
07/16/09 08:02 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

What's the 16g record?

What about removing the muffler - replacing with a straight pipe out the back or a super short pipe comming out by the front wheel?
Manual window conversion - not too easy to find parts.
An open diff weighs less than a LSD.
3 bolt should be lighter than a 4 bolt too


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/16/09 09:40 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

16g record (sorta)

#14 Victor Brant 11.474 119.08 7.306 96.96 1.596 Sleeper 16g

clicky

EvoIII 16g not far behind...


deleting muff is bettered by deleting exhaust

fender exhaust is like running downpipe only

manual window conversion sounds like a nightmare - these cars have enough (really...)

Gvr4's come with 3 bolt - 4 bolt is supposedly only a necessity if you start breaking axles. I believe ATC250r (?) used to claim 3 bolt axles broke once into 12's but neither one of us did. You can swap a TEL subframe and keep 3 bolt cups/axles - all preference...


fivestardsm
("Savior of the damned and dis-owned")
07/17/09 12:45 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Quoting RedTwo:

What's the 16g record?

What about removing the muffler - replacing with a straight pipe out the back or a super short pipe comming out by the front wheel?
Manual window conversion - not too easy to find parts.
An open diff weighs less than a LSD.
3 bolt should be lighter than a 4 bolt too




I have 2 manual window cars, and have seen several others in the yards around. Granted, after the scrap prices went through the roof last year, I am sure there are fewer now tho.
Personally, that is one thing I would not get rid of. Got to have the 4/55 A/C.


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
07/17/09 01:27 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

If you're aiming for a 16g record, you're going to be breaking 3bolt axles. I ran high 12's back in the day with a 3bolt, but past that if driven hard, people start to break them.

Also, I have zero issue with people doing what they want to do with their own cars. Half the gvr4's out there are torn up, beat down, and rusted to shit anyway. What's a couple more stripped down for track duty? Finding a GSX to built into a track car is almost more difficult than finding a VR4 anyway. That said, I disagree with some removal of some items...

IMO, removal of the lower or upper timing cover is dumb. There's no significant weight loss by removing it and to replace the belt you still need to remove everything else off the front of the motor, so that's a moot point. I think removal of just the upper cover could be even worse. Not from a safety standpoint, but from frustration. I'd hate to be working in the engine bay only to have a small bolt or nut fall down there because the cover was off. Then you get to remove the lower one to get it out.


throughfaith323
(39, 40, 41)
07/17/09 06:55 AM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

I’m pretty sure my buddy’s roommate was in the tens with his older talon. Only broke like 2 axles I think his whole time having the car. I will double check and get back to you guys. it wasn’t a daily driver but when he drove it he didn’t baby it I don’t think. We had a track day a year ago and he was launching it with no problem.

Like I said though...I will double check.

Has a lot to do with your weight, tires, etc how much strain you’ll be putting on the drive train.

Get back to this confirming he had a 3 bolt in couple days.


NateCrisman
(Fisheye Hoodpins)
07/17/09 05:00 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Copy/paste off my blog. I'v been trying to keep track of the weights of everything I change on the gvr4 I'm currently working on.
Quote:


Parts removed entirely:
39.5 rear bumper support
6 rear tow loops: pair
8 rear bumper foam
3.5 exhaust heat shield
29.5 front bumper support (prev cut for fmic install)
40lb-EST Complete A/C system
22lb ABS pump
10lb-EST 4 wheel steering rear rack, lines, & pump
10lb -EST charcoal canister, intake brace, emmissions stuff
9lb power antenna
39lb spare tire/jack/tools/carpets - gutted trunk
6.5lb remove balance shafts
8.5lb remove fronst swaybar
9lb Cut up wiring harnesses to remove wiring for AC, cruise, ABS, alarm, power antennea, and unused engine harness plugs.
Total: 240.5lb removed

Parts modified/replaced that alter total weight:
-2.25lb Cut cast drivers side engine mount bracket above PS pump
-1.25lb cut bent end off drivers side engine mount
-2.00lb complete T3T4 setup swapped from 16G setup (tube header and o2 housing are much lighter than stock cast parts, though bigger turbo and external wg offset most of the weight loss)
-5lb Aluminum intercooler pipes
-4lb 89 Dash pad
-4lb JMF intake (10lb oem/6lb JMF)
-8lb non cruise control throttle cable
-15lb lawnmower battery instead of full size batt
-5lb plastic radiator fans
-15lb aluminum flywheel
-4lb unorthodox underdrive crank pulley
+15lb larger FMIC core (xs power 28"x12"x4" core is 23lb) (gain from stock)
+7lb 17" wheels & tires (gain from stock)
+.5lb prothane engine mounts (heavier than stock rubber/steel)
Total: ~ 43.5lb loss from modifications


Total current weight loss: ~283lb


"To-Do" list of weight loss:
manual seatbelts 20lb
evo8 seats ~40lb
coilover shocks save ~35lb compared to stock type shocks
carbon fiber hood ~30lb
interior sound deadening ~10lb
manual rack & ps delete ~15lb

Total "to do" ~150lb loss

Misc weights for GVR4 parts:
32.5 Fuel tank w/ sending unit & pump
5 Full set of exhaust hangers
17.5 Stock GVR4 15" wheel
18.75 Front shock & spring
10.5 rear shock & spring
10 rear swaybar w/ links
8.5 front swaybar w/ links
10.5 Stock intake manifold
3 gas tank heat shield
6.5 balance shafts w/ front pulley
1.5 front brake shields
11.5 stock 2g exhaust manifold
22 16G & cast o2 housing



All weights listed in LB as measured on a mechanical shipping scale




sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
07/17/09 07:08 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Thanks so much Nate!!!

NateCrisman
(Fisheye Hoodpins)
07/30/09 10:51 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

12lb: rubber mat on the inside of the firewall under dash. heater core needs to come loose to remove the biggest part.
2.5lb: thick foam block under the radio & center console area.
3lb: Front ABS rings (need to either press the wheel bearing on/off or cut them out with a chisle. (I used half dremel cutoff wheel, final cut with an air chisle)

I was able to chop out over 11lb of wiring from the stock harnesses: ABS wiring, AC, and Cruise control were the main parts. I also pulled wiring related to the alarm system, power antenna, emissions,


NateCrisman
(Fisheye Hoodpins)
10/30/09 09:55 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Dual piston front calipers w/ pads: 14.5lb (stock GVR4 & 92 up AWD DSM)
Single piston front calipers w/ pads; 11.25lb (stock 90-91 DSM, I think all 1g FWD)

Large rotors for use with dual piston calipers: 12lb each
Small rotors for use with single piston calipers: 11lb each

8.5lb total weight loss from "downgrading" the front brakes. 2lb is rotating weight which has a big affect on acceleration. All of the weight is unsprung weight which is most important for handling and suspension efficiency.


Brianawd
(Higher Launch RPM)
11/07/09 08:42 PM
Re: GVR4 - running list of items to eliminate...

Quote:

Aluminum transfer case install





Bad idea. The case its self will not take the stress of a hard launch for to long before it explodes. The aluminum just has to much flex. Also being that the all aluminum only come on 90 dsm with a 22spline tcase I don't even know why any one would want to run them.



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