Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 08:25 PM
5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/17/09 - Now Done

Iceman helped me put all the pieces together for this job. I hope to start the removal process of the 4 lug stuff this weekend (if the weather holds). I hope to take lots of pics to help clear up the mystery of this job. I still have questions on the exact way of getting everything apart and put back together without taking too much apart.

For a parts list, see this thread. click

The brakes are for a 1993 Talon AWD (if your keeping the stock calipers).

Here is the first pic.


More to follow.


Brianawd
(Higher Launch RPM)
03/02/09 08:37 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

What rotors are those Terry?

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 08:53 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

I got them from Brakemotive76 from Ebay. I had to call them for the exact parts because they were not listed. They confirmed the rotor sizes for front and rear to make sure I get the right parts. Came complete with rotors and ceramic pads. They came to my door in 2 days. Super fast.

I bought 2 complete sets (one for me and 1 for Jeremy Clark) and paid something like $235ish shipped per set.


Brianawd
(Higher Launch RPM)
03/02/09 08:55 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Nice. They look like nice rotors.

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 08:59 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

The boxes are marked "Powerstop" just like the pads. I hope they hold up.

But they do look kinda small inside the new 17" wheels.


Brianawd
(Higher Launch RPM)
03/02/09 09:01 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Quote:

But they do look kinda small inside the new 17" wheels




Thats a big reason I stay with 16in wheels. It makes my 12.2 wilwoods look big.


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 09:08 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Size pics with 17" wheels.

Front

Rear


slobra
(I haven't contributed enough of my stupidity)
03/02/09 09:53 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Yay, I was just going to start assembling parts and preparing to post stupid questions for a 5 speed swap so I'm pretty excited your doing this.

beaner
(Blew1 Guy Today )
03/02/09 10:50 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Nice work man.

G
(JDM Unit)
03/02/09 10:54 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

You using those lug nuts with those wheels? They don't look to be the shank washer style?

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 11:11 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Yep they are. Genuine OEM Mitsu. They have the shank and the washer. Directly from the factory (literally).

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/02/09 11:13 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

What did the front wheel bearings and seals run you? I need a set for my mirage real soon here!

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/02/09 11:18 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

PM sent.

jepherz
(Too Clean)
03/02/09 11:56 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Bout time you put on some real shoes

RedTwo
(Rangi Kiwi)
03/03/09 01:02 AM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

What do those wheels come off? Seem kind of trendy and aftermarket for (based on the mitsi center cap) seem to be factory wheels.

slobra
(I haven't contributed enough of my stupidity)
03/03/09 01:07 AM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

97-99 Eclipse GSX and 3rd gen eclipse





iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
03/03/09 03:35 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Terry won those wheels as a door prize at MOD '08 last October.

Romanova
( the coolest person to ever post in the past 2 hours)
03/03/09 05:48 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Great thread so far... more pics please...

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
03/03/09 06:46 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

Top pic is the two piece original wheels of this design, used on the 97-99 GSX, ans some 3rd gen V6s in 2000 MY.

The second pic is actually the one piece cast wheel that looks nearly identical from a distance, but is actually different construction. They were used on 2001-02 MY Eclipse 3rd gen I think.

Quoting slobra:

97-99 Eclipse GSX and 3rd gen eclipse








Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/04/09 08:34 PM
Re: Total package for 5 lug conversion - Big thanks to Iceman

OK, first real post for the process.

I will leave out the stuff about jack stands and tire removal. If you can't manage that, don't even start .

Starting on the rear:

The first thing to do is remove caliper. I just did a full rear brake job less than 300 miles ago so this came apart really easy. I pulled the e-brake cable completely out of the way. I did not mess with the caliper bolts, I just removed the 14mm bolts (2) so the whole bracket assembly fell away. I then just flipped it up and out of the way without breaking the lines loose. I am planning on reusing the stock calipers. The rotors came away with a few hits with a dead-blow hammer. Most of the time, rear rotors will not come off that easy, but they are brand new and were not rusted on.

Caliper stored away


I then removed the axle bolts from the cups (again, this was easy because I did a 4-bolt swap early last year and I used all stainless hardware. I left the axles in the center diff and just wedged the axle forward and let them rest on the lower control arm. I then used an impact gun and removed the large locking nut that holds the cup on. I did not have to use a bar to keep the hub from spinning. I was able to just hold the hub still with my hand. (Gotta love powerful impact guns).

Axle stored away


Once the cup is off, I used a dead-blow hammer and hit the threaded end of the hub to knock it out of the carrier. It came out WAY to easy. The rear bearings were shot. Looks like I should have done this a few years ago. If your hub has good bearings, it most likely will not come out very easily. If your going to reuse/sell the old 4 bolt hubs, protect the threaded end by spinning the nut back on the treads so that the nut is damaged and not the threads.

The only thing left to do is pop out the inner bearing and oil seal. I found that the socket I have for the front axle nuts is a perfect size so I put that into the hub with a 4" extension (1/2" drive) and used the dead-blow hammer and tapped it out. This did not come out to easily. I did have to use some force for this and once the bearing let go, the seal, bearing, and socket went flying. So be careful not to have fragile stuff around the car while working.

"special tool"

"special tool" used


I took a few minutes to clean the inner "hole" up and then put a very thin layer of axle grease over all the fresh metal to keep it from oxidizing because it will be a few days before I can slide the new hub in. If your going to re-assemble right away, grease is not needed.

I then turned my attention to all those shinny new parts shown at the beginning of this thread.

Here is a parts blow-up courtesy of Mitsu manual


Slide the two dust caps onto the hub as shown in this pic. Just tap them gently down with a small dead-blow hammer.


I own a GVR4, so I am "crafty". I find ways to make tools and such. This one is a very simple way of doing bearings without buying a press.

I have a very heavily built bench (that I built from leftover deck lumber). So I used a large spade-bit and drilled a hole through the far corner of the top, right next to a 4x4 leg. I then slide the outer bearing onto the shaft (after coating the rubber lip side of the bearing with axle grease) and then slid the whole thing into the hole in the bench. (I did not have the wheel studs in the hub yet.) I did that step last but took the pics after I was done.


I then used an old junk viscous clutch as a buffer from the 10lb hammer and drove the outer bearing down and then the ASB ring.(Again, ignore the wheel studs, they were not there when I was seating the bearings.)


I then installed the wheel studs because it is very easy to do on the bench instead of trying to get them fully seated once on the car. I just used a 16oz hammer and my bench vice. tapped them flush to the back side of the hub.

I will not be installing the hubs into the arm until I can clean/respray the wheel well.

More to come this weekend.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/05/09 12:50 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

looking nice .....g/l

1990ggsxnj
(Member ++)
03/05/09 08:58 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Keep those pics coming! I'm gunna have to do the rear on 139. Front was already done though.

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/05/09 07:02 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

OK, today was all about pretty. No real progress other than making the overall finished product a little better looking.

Took me about 2 hours to clean and paint. I did not do a 100% job but things are looking a LOT better.


Used High temp (1200 deg) Silver spray paint for the calipers and Rustoleum, flat black oil based paint. Brushed on in a VERY heavy coat.

Tomorrow the rear hubs go on. Wish me luck .


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/07/09 12:11 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

OK, today I spent about 7 hours on the job.

I started by finishing up the rear which took about 3 hours. Would have been faster IF I would have installed the rear outer seal in the right direction . The rubber flared side goes OUT toward the 4 bolt cup. No biggie, I just popped them out with a small pry bar and flipped them. Did not damage anything.

I did end up renting a bearing punch kit from Autozone. It was the only way to get the rear outer bearing fully seated in the hub. Once the outer bearing and seal was in, I slid the hub assembly into the control arm and then used a dead-blow hammer to seat the rear hub fully. It was not hard at all. I then used the 1/2" impact to spin the 4 bolt cup nut down and torqued the piss out of it. The book calls for 160lb.

The rear brakes look great. Can't wait to mount tires into the wells and see how it looks. I will be ordering the tires on Monday.

Rear finished pics.



Now onto the front. Took the brakes off last night. Today I removed the complete hub assembly from the car. Pretty simple. Dropped the tie-rod, un-did the axle nut, ripped the ABS crap out, dropped the brake line from the strut, used a pry bar to pry up and hit the ball joint mount a few times and the joint popped loose, removed the lower strut bolts and lifted out the whole thing. Spent about 2 hours punching out the old bearings and cleaned the hubs up and readied them for a trip to Midas in the morning to have them pressed back together. I did use a propane torch to heat the front bearing outer race before attempting to punch it out. They came but Autozone might not be to happy with me. I marked up a few of the bearing block plates. .

I then spent quite a bit of time degreasing the wheel well area. It was caked on. I used 2 cans of brake cleaner and got it pretty good. I then used the same paint as I did in the back. Painted the calipers silver and the wheel wells flat black. I need to get a passenger side splash shield for the tranny. I have never had one.

I did find one bad tie rod end and have it ready to go on. It really was still good but the boot was ripped and there is no point in not replacing it now. I will get it tomorrow morning. I don't need the other side because it was replaced a year ago.

Some quick pics. Paint is still wet. Again, not a 100% job. This car is not #3 condition.



Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/07/09 03:26 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

OK, fronts are done.

Paint is still a little wet. It is raining out and very humid and probably a little cold for optimum drying. No big deal, it will be a week before the tires are here.

Nothing really exciting about this part of the job. I got the hub assembly back from Midas and it only took about an hour to install both sides and get the brakes done.



This whole process did not take as long as I was thinking. I have not pulled the ABS motor and install the new brake lines yet. For right now, I will just pull the fuses and do the whole ABS tear out latter. I am going to leave the rear sensors in place because if I take them out, it will leave a hole in the rear arm/hub to collect dirt/water.






**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/07/09 03:34 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

im in the process of doing my 5 lug also except i ran into a slight problem after i removed the axle here are some pics if anyone has some help they would like to offer im all ears ive been working on this part for about an hour with no luck


sorry for the crappy pics camera phone is all i have at my disposal right now


jepherz
(Too Clean)
03/07/09 03:47 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

What's the problem, Mike?

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/07/09 03:56 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

isnt the plate suppsoed to come out with the axle so i can get to the bolt underneath it?

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/07/09 08:53 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I replied on your post.

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/11/09 11:55 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

New tires were delived today.

But I wont have time to get them on until next weekend (the 21st). I am a little buzy this weekend picking up my new DD.

So I will be "jackstand ballin" for another couple weeks. But I will have something else to play with in the meantime.



evo8ya
(Member +)
03/11/09 12:12 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Very nice DD . They are making some pretty good power with just afew mods. Here's a clicky click for ya

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/12/09 05:29 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

OK, back on topic.

New tires are here.



EXTRA LOAD rated - because the GVR4 is a PIG.


Again, it will be about a week or two before I can get these mounted/balanced. Then I need to have here aligned.


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/17/09 07:21 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

All done except for the alignment. Wont be driving it until April anyway.

What do you think?












**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/17/09 07:25 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Those wheels look great, good work!

galant344
(Member +)
03/17/09 07:26 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

looks good Terry!

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
03/17/09 07:50 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Thank you. It was quite the job and a little more $$$ than what I was thinking before I started.

I am a little embarrassed to say what tires I went with. All the reviews (that I could read) were very positive and the price was too good to pass up.

They are Ling Long L688 215/45/17ZR extra load with a rating of 280-A-A. Basically they just copied the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3.

Ling Long L688


Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3


They look great for only $44.97 a tire.

Flame on


Jordangvr4
(Member +)
03/17/09 08:08 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Looks good!

Romanova
( the coolest person to ever post in the past 2 hours)
03/18/09 09:24 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Not feeling the wheels...

slugsgomoo
(god hates stupid people)
03/18/09 01:01 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

i've got the wanli knockoff of the AVS sports on my car, got all 4 tires for $20

they're honestly not that bad, but i'm guessing that yours will be similarly not as good as the tire they're copying as mine have been.

But for the price, I'm not complaining.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/26/09 08:53 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

LOL ling long tires

fivestardsm
("Savior of the damned and dis-owned")
07/26/09 09:09 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Good price, Butt... click

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
07/26/09 09:14 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Yes, they do "follow" the cracks a little too much but They will NEVER see water and the car is mostly doing show-n-shine stuff now.

At the time (and still an issue), cost was the most important thing. I could not spend $600 on a set of rubber after spending $750 on the 5 lug conversion.

I will upgrade later if the need arises.


fivestardsm
("Savior of the damned and dis-owned")
07/26/09 09:37 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Quote:

I could not spend $600 on a set of rubber after spending $750 on the 5 lug conversion.




Ouch, why did it cost $750 for the conversion?


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
07/26/09 10:04 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

All OEM parts, right down to the lug studs and nuts. New slotted/drilled rotors, ceramic pads, undercoating and caliper paint, used hubs that I had tanked and bead-blasted, etc..

Hell, it cost me $80 to have the front hubs pressed together after I bought all the parts.

Then figure in the cost of mount and balance of the new wheels.

But that is not all, once everything is back together, figure in the cost of a full alignment since that has been screwed up from the process.

If you want to do it right, then be prepared to spend some cash.


DAMN YOU, you are making me think about how much money I sank into this bucket.


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
07/26/09 10:17 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

How did the alignment get messed up? You didn't remove anything that would change it?

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
07/26/09 10:29 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I was not taking any chances. I had to remove the whole front spindle and there is a small amount of play from the 2 large bolts that connect the strut base to the knuckle.

fivestardsm
("Savior of the damned and dis-owned")
07/26/09 10:50 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Quoting Terry Posten:




DAMN YOU, you are making me think about how much money I sank into this bucket.






Im sorry. I try not to think about the money I put in mine either since I ran lean and detonated my plugs last week..


bazeng
(work in progress)
09/27/09 01:41 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Are we able to how to this topic?

I'm doing the rear bearings / front bearings as well as a 5 lug swap and this thread does help quite abit!

Took me a while to find it though.. =(


bazeng
(work in progress)
10/03/09 06:06 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Just adding to the photos.

Here is how I removed the bearings off the shaft-

I used some special tools designed to pull bearings. Worked very well.
The photo explains how it works...





The removal has been explained by Terry, this will explain (with pics) the re-installation..

Here are all the parts I used.



This photo shows the order of parts.



Install steps:

1-

I used a small hammer to knock the first 2 parts back onto the axel shaft.
Also, as the diagram displayed (mitsu diagram). I oiled the 2nd plate where the rubber dust seal sits.








I then used a press to push the bearing onto the shaft. Very easy to do. Same goes with the ABS gear.









3 -

I then knocked the studs back in using a vice and a mallet.





4 -

Once all assembled / pressed on, I simply placed it into the hub and tapped it in with a hammer. It went in very very easily. I used copper grease in the hub to possibly assist with future removal / rust. Grease would also work well or wd40.









All that is left to do - slide the cups back on the spline and bolt it all up!!

Much easier than I expected...
Next, the fronts...


656of1000
(You can't put a price on childhood memories)
10/03/09 08:09 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

2g GSX wheels FTW! I think they're catching on. I wonder how your's would look if the spokes were painted white, with the polished lip?



I like that you did the swap the "right" way- using all OE parts. Well done!
I made do with all used parts and junk bearings. I splurged on powdercoating the rims, though.

BTW, my buddy swears by his Ling Longs, so I think you're on to something there!


KiNgMaRtY
(Member +++)
11/26/09 05:12 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I am getting interested into doing the 5 lug conversion but I was wondering if I would be losing the 4ws by doing so?

Rausch
(Rock Star Status)
11/26/09 07:31 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

^ Nope. The hubs are not related to the rear steering.

BluFalcon
(Fantastic Parts Seller)
11/29/09 10:44 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Do you still have ABS on your car?

Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
11/29/09 11:13 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I took my ABS off. You don't need to if you install the front rings on the new hubs or get a set that is from a car that already has them. The rear hubs can reuse the old rings as well.

BluFalcon
(Fantastic Parts Seller)
11/29/09 07:18 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I was wanting to keep the ABS if I did the 5 lug swap. I was hoping it would be as simple as swapping the GVR4 ABS rings onto the DSM 5 lug axles and hubs. I just sold my Talon, and I have a nice set of SSR Competitions and some 17x8 Konig Villains that would look great on my GVR4.

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
11/30/09 11:12 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Ed, your 92 runs a 1:1 ratio front/rear, so you can keep the ABS either by transferring over your GVR4 rings, or using ABS-equipped parts from a TEL (which also uses 1:1 ratio) for both front and rear. You cannot mix and match as the TELs use 47 teeth and the 92 GVR4s use 43 teeth.

BluFalcon
(Fantastic Parts Seller)
12/02/09 08:21 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Excellent! Thanks for the info. Now to start gathering parts. Super sexy 5 lug wheels for the GVR4 soon.

moidsm1
(Member)
12/03/09 08:36 AM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Not trying to threadJack, Just want to add in my experience, I know I do not have a VR4, I recently did the 5 Lug Swap on my Galant GS FWD. It was pretty straightforward, everything was bolt on. for the front I used a 92 GSX Spindle/hub with the smaller rotors. for braking on the front I used VR4 Dual pistons., They bolted right up to the spindles. For the rear I used hubs/rotors from a fwd drive 1G eclipse, doesnt matter turbo or not. Now my question is, What brake rotors should I be using? and should I have taken the proportioning valve from the car I got the Dual Piston calipers from? Thanks.

BluFalcon
(Fantastic Parts Seller)
01/10/10 08:15 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Didn't mean to raise this one from the dead, but just wanted clarification from what Iceman stated, on the ABS issue before I went and spent money on parts for the swap.

The 92 GVR4 ABS computer isn't interested in the actual count on the ABS rings, but rather just wants to see the 1:1 ratio it would see with the GVR4 rings. So, leaving the DSM rings on the hubs, which have 47 F/R, when the swap is done is no problem, right? The 92 GVR4 ABS unit should see the 1:1 ratio, and work like it's supposed to as if the GVR4 tone rings 43 F/R were in place.


iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
01/10/10 09:03 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

Ed, that is my belief. I have installed these parts on my '92, but it has not rolled or driven yet. Will know in spring unless you beat me to it.

I don't know the reason for 43 v. 47 teeth on the different cars, but the ABS computers for the '92 VR4 and the TEL AWD cars have been commonized in the parts system, so I can't imagine it cares about actual number, just the ratio. Of course, if you put rotors with only 4 teeth on them, the speed would be all screwed up. 43 seems close enough to 47 to likely not cause issues.


Terry Posten
(Old Balls)
01/10/10 09:04 PM
Re: 5 lug conversion process - Updated 3/4/09

I would suggest PMing Iceman directly. He had a ton of experience and full access to the proper tech team to make sure you get the right answer.


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