Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/19/05 06:54 AM
HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Well we dynoed the hotbits adjustable VR4 strut and as I thought they are great!
Many would not belive this but at 30" a second on the F/V curve they are 15 times more adjustable than a DMS!!!!! Also they dont lag a bit!!! Even at a meter a second....... What does this mean? Well they rock and blow JIC out of the water! (sorry guys) These shocks adjustment mech is on par with ohlins, penske, JRZ, MOTON.....etc.....

I am very very pleased with this.....!!!

More info to come......!!!

Cheers
Larry

Parker Rally Sport

1500lbs of adjustment at 30" a sec



Here is the football showing NO lags



Here is famed DMS strut for a EVO 4..... Note the small adjustment range in both bump and rebound....... and the very linear nature of the curve.....Take note of the scale on the left..... 100lbs of adjustment at 30" a sec



a_santos
(Brasileiro Turbinado)
07/19/05 08:57 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

thats sweet. I hope my graph looks like that, minus the adjustment.

I've been telling guys about these for a while, and there are always alot of skeptics. Well here is some hard evidence.


HertzGalant VR4.org Administrator
(OneTitle to rule them all.)
07/20/05 10:34 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Dumb Q: How does Hotbits compare to say, Ground Controls?

Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/20/05 11:41 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

The ground control shocks? Advanced design? They STINK.... NO ADJUSTMENT AT ALL! the knobs dont work.... If you are refering to the coil kits...Its a spring...There is no comparison...... There is really no better coil over Its all threaded collars and a spring.... Springs are the last equation in a suspension setup......

LP
"shock builder, tuner and designer"


KT
(Turbotoolbox)
07/21/05 03:05 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

OK, another question. Hot do Hotbits compare to Tein SS?

KT


markrieb
(Senior Member)
07/21/05 07:51 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

For those of us that are not shock engineers how about a quick primer on what the differences are between a good shock curve and a bad shock curve. The difference between regressive and digressive valving and why one is better than the other. High speed vs. low speed curves.

First off, the space between the curves gives you an idea of the range of adjustment of the shock. So the further apart the lines, the more adjustment that is available. I would guess that you also want the curves to be parallel and smooth.

I'm still trying to learn what is good and bad.

I'm also considering a set of the Hotbits for my EVO.

Thanks,

Mark


iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
07/21/05 07:55 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

+1 for Mark's comments.

Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/21/05 08:02 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Man you guys are gonna make me write a novel!

I will do a little write up soon... as far as tein SS??? I dunno I never dynoed them?
If some one has one please send it for dynoing.....

A few comment for now.....
Linear curves are no good for street or race cars on gravel or tarmac......good for off road racing trucks.....
Small adjustment ranges are no good either.....
digressive curves work best on racing/sport vehicles


LP


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/21/05 10:53 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Any websites or links on where to get this for a good price?

Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/22/05 06:42 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Yeah... ME! I am the US rebuild/service center and also do sales....

Email me at
[email protected]


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/22/05 07:03 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

And how would you compare the Hotbits to Koni Sports?
Mike R.


Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/22/05 08:08 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Sense I started building shocks in 98' I have always belived KONI's to be junk.... They have LARGE variations from part to part in general forces and adjustment ranges.... KONI's are not in the same leauge as these shocks! THIS IS NOT HYPE! ALL DATA! In the past racers would buy 6 or 8 koni and dyno them to try and find a pair that matched.... If there was something better for the money guys I would push it! If you all dont remeber I designed a 50mm inverted mono tube, but decided to work with these instead as they are that good..... I just ripped one open to take a look see at the adjustment mech and I am very impressed and so is my good friend and shock engineer for arvin meritor!.....

Regards
LP


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/22/05 03:32 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Some day the youth will realize when somebody knows what they are talking about. Thanks for all the good information, Larry.

It's good to know that hard data can finally prove when a product is good and not left to some jaded punk to review it.

I'm tickled pink with this suspension. I can now take a cloverleaf at close to 60 when I could only do close to 40 stock and close to 50 with the Whiteline springs. I'm a happy man

Larry, could you use a raw set of Hotbits to come up with a new application?

twkd


Arty
(Junior Member)
07/23/05 12:12 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

It's great to see some real data on suspension.
While you have the shock "ripped open" how about posting some pictures of some of the more interesting internal bits, like, the piston and its valving, and the adjustment mechanism. I'd appreciate it, if you could give us some comments as to why the Hotbits design works better than some of the other adjustables.

How many of the Hotbits parts have you been able to test so far?


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/23/05 12:55 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Can someone supply the part/model number of these shocks.
I can get them from aussie, but need to know the model number.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/23/05 07:26 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Quote:


Here is famed DMS strut for a EVO 4..... Note the small adjustment range in both bump and rebound....... and the very linear nature of the curve.....Take note of the scale on the left..... 100lbs of adjustment at 30" a sec





Which units are these? 40mm? 50mm? 60mm?

How do the hotbits hold up to rally? Do they break at the tabs like the DMS instead of bending? As I'm sure you know, its a lot cheaper to buy a tab and have it re-welded to a shock body then it is to replace the whole unit. DMS ability to be rebuilt and survive is amazing. What kind of extention do the hotbits have? Thanks Larry!


Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/23/05 04:50 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

The EVO 4 data from above is the 50mm rally units......As for there ability to hold up to ralling... YES! They are stout and cost less to rebuild than a DMS Also they need no service between events like a DMS or any inverted strut..... As for failures.... I have only heard of one failure of tabs and that was recently on a neon SRT4...... Neons with stock rear mounts side load shocks alot! as they can deflect upto an 1" under load...... As for pics of the guts.... No can do........ sorry

But they are superior for many reasons......

They are built under controled conditions......
They where designed by an aeronautical engineer that knows his shite.....
They are made in malaysia where labor is cheap and many features can be built in
for much less.......
They use CNC machine pistons and screw machined adjustment mechs........All parts are held to TIGHT tolerances..........
The adjuster mech is a prop shape and designed to meter the amount of fluid that a 22mm piston rod displaces.... BIG ROD = more sensitivity.........

Im glad to dispel shock myths..... I hate junk dampers that are proclamied as great!!

Cheers
LP


cheekychimp
(Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls)
07/23/05 06:28 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Larry,
What would be involved in getting Hotbits to make me some shocks for an application that isn't already in existence. Or is there already a Hotbits application for the 1997 and up 8th Generation Galants?

Paul.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
07/24/05 06:55 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Larry,

I have the hot bits adjustable race spec coilovers on my J spec. the front springs are 8kg/cm. I have to wind the shocks up to at least 10 clicks from full hard before they start to stop the car from bouncing (very off putting at high speed on rough roads). My feeling is that the spring rate for the fronts is too stiff for Aussie roads and are considering on getting some 6kg/cm springs to see what they are like. Got any advice?


Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/25/05 06:05 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

6kg seems like a good choice..... That is the rate used on the rally sets and that is around 450lbs..... Rather stiff for a rally car, but an evo 5 Ohlins set uses 500lbs springs up front for gravel..... This will also close up the split front to rear on your car making if feel a bit more balanced......

Best of luck
LP


Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
07/25/05 06:08 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Paul is this the E85A body car??? If so we have a spec already....

LP


cheekychimp
(Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls)
07/25/05 06:31 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Larry,

No it's an EC5A body !!!

Paul


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
09/25/05 03:22 PM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

So you would actually recomend these units for use on a gravel rally car?

I've been using a set of inverted 30mm Bilstiens, but I bent one, and then damaged it again at the weekend. so it looks like it is time for an upgrade.

As these are a lot cheaper than DMS or 50mm Bilstiens I have to look seriously at them.

Thanks for the good infomation.


Larry Parker
(Rally Member)
09/26/05 07:25 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

DMS are junk.... They are tough enough to hold up but are almost non adjustable......
They are just not worth the 4k they cost now..... Yes the VR4/talon setup is suitable for gravel use.....

Regards
lp


Bimmubishi
(giant log)
09/26/05 11:05 AM
Re: HOTBITS SHOCK DYNO DATA.....

Here's a good thread on shock dynos.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1104049&page=1

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/civic/slide2.html

Larry, can you list some prices on these? Be sure to qualify that the Konis that people are talking about are street and not race parts. Bilstein and Koni also make racing suspension. This is some serious info. thanks for posting it!

Thanks,
Al



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