curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/05/04 10:27 AM
Coil over plug is done with pictures

Ok Buschur sells them. But I build things so thats out.
I have 4 coil over plugs from an Intreped and a aluminum plate already to go.
I have the four plugs and an extra coil wiring harness. I could have this done in about an hour but the wiring is screwing me up and probably because I read to much. Taboo speed shop has an article that explaned the wasted spark set up that our cars have. It talks about the uneven wear that the plugs undergoes because of a dual polarity set up over that of a conventional coil set up. I think this is that part that messes people up when installing these things.

If anyone has a link to wiring up the dodge coil over plugs to a dsm please send it. I've searched and searched and yet to find any good info except people that have given up on the project.

The stock galant set up has three wire a red, a white, and a black with white strip.
The Black with white stripe has 11.9 volts with the switch on and 13.4 at idle .
The red and white has 0 with the switch on and 13.2 at idle when testing on the side of the coils.

I hooked one of the intreped coils up just to test I ran a wire from the battery ground to the bottom of a spark plug and pluged the plug in the coil. I started the car and conected the wires to the coil pigback to the 1/4 coil on the car. By hooking the intreped green wire up to the galant black/white stripe it fired well but when hooking the intreped green to the galant white hardly anything happened.

Well enough rambling on, I just don't want to go through the process and the thing fall on its face at 5 grand. I'll keep you guys informed when its up and running. Thanks Curtis


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/05/04 01:47 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

If I remember right, there's a longer thread on this on DSM Tuners. I was kicking around the idea a little while back, but scrapped it and decided to stick with conventional plug wires.

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/06/04 05:33 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Ok the plate is built and the coils are mounted.

The top wires on the intreped coils are all tied to the black with white stripe on the Galant harness and the bottom wires are tied to the red and the white.

Biach want run!!!!
Its poping like its dropping a cylinder and want start.

I tryed reversing the wires on #1 and #3 and it starts but runs like crap.

Maybe it needs the 1/4 and 2/3 tied together for the magnetic field to be right?

Well time to try google.


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/06/04 09:02 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Still no luck on researching this cop setup.
Time to shoot myself in the head.............


atc250r
(Senior Ricer)
11/06/04 03:29 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

You'll probably want to tie 1+4/2+3 together as those pistons come up to TDC as pairs in that fashion. Honestly, our stock ignition is pretty damn good so I don't really see the advantage to the COP system. I do see one major disadvantge though. How are you gonna use a timing light now?

John


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/06/04 06:26 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

I'm keeping the old coils and wires on the valve cover plate I already have so when I need to put the timing light on the car its a ten minute switch.

Still no info found. I've found alot of forums where people say they have it on their cars but no info on how the coils are wired up.

If I don't find something tommorrow I'll carry it and the factory schematic to one of my professors that teaches circuit analysis next week, he'll rag on me and the car will run.


cheekychimp
(Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls)
11/07/04 04:17 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

The guys on the AEM forum were talking about coil on plug using coils from a seadoo. The fit straight down on top of the plugs and allow you to use the original cover. Looks factory. I looked over on the forum for a wiring diagram for you but I couldn't see anything. The really annoying thing is I remember reading about someone who did that and it popped and misfired just like yours. The solution was really simple and I just can't remember or find it ... Damn !!!

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/07/04 07:16 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

You should wire the coils in series(+12V to one side of coil#1, other side of coil#1 to +12V of coil#4, and other side of coil#4 to trigger) the same would apply to coils 2 and 3.

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/07/04 08:01 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

keep the info coming because when I find out the whole world will know.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/07/04 10:27 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

What fast GVR4 said i'm sure is all you will need to do. Makes sense to me as we have a waste spark system But it will take some time with the wiring diagram to find the coil trigger wire colors, and the hot side of the COP you have.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/07/04 10:35 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:

You'll probably want to tie 1+4/2+3 together as those pistons come up to TDC as pairs in that fashion. Honestly, our stock ignition is pretty damn good so I don't really see the advantage to the COP system. I do see one major disadvantge though. How are you gonna use a timing light now?

John




I think wiring these using the factory trigger wires will result in not having a problem with setting the timing. The ECU will still have the same control over the timing, if not it would run like poo.

Josh


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/07/04 02:33 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Here's what I've figured out so far guys.

From the Galant VR4/DSM
The Black with white strip is the power wire that feeds our coils.
Red is the trigger wire for 1 and 4.
White is the trigger wire 2 and 3.

From the Intreped the top wire is Green and the bottom wire is white with different colored stripes on each one.

From this I figured the Green to be the power wire.

I tested this by hooking a wire from the battery ground to the base of a spark plug and hooking the plug to the wires on one of the coils while the car was running.
With the Green intreped wire to the black with white stripe and the white intrped wire hooked to the Red Galant wire it threw off a nice arc and when switched it looked kind of weak.

I'm wondering if the coils that other people are running will fire no matter how there working or if there like these.

Also the Galant/DSM's have a small black box thingy hooked to the black with white stripe.

Here's the link to Taboo speed shop.
http://www.taboospeedshop.com/ignition.htm


I've got one of my old school supra buddies researcing this thing also. He had a Galant VR4 back in 93/94 with a 150 shot of juice and no upgrades. The motor melted.


atc250r
(Senior Ricer)
11/07/04 02:49 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

I don't know if this will help but here it goes. Do you know that if you hook up an ignition coil backwards it will still work? It won't work great but it will usually get the car to run, poorly, and it will usually take a crap shortly thereafter. Just some info you may not know.

John


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/08/04 04:48 AM
Re: Coil over plug????



curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/08/04 11:56 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:






Nice picture
Now please find one of the harness before it was taped up.

By the way what coils are those.


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/08/04 03:44 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

It is done and runs great. The car has never pulled this hard before and is crisp.
I would have never guessed that spark plug wires would have broken down so badly.


The black with white stripe wire (12Volt) on the dsm harness gets split into 2 wires, one going to the green on the intrepid #1 coil and the other to the green on the #3 coil. The white on the #1 intrepid plug goes to the Green on the #4, the white on the #3 goes to the green on the #2. The red galant wire goes to the white on the number 4 and the galant white goes to the white on the #2. Also the little black noise suppressor get tied to the Galant 12volt near the plug.

That all it took. I used alum. spacers to space the coils up so I wouldn't have to cut on the boots. 8 10/32 allen head bolts to bolt it down and the sheet of aluminum.
Since I used Junk yard parts I'm out about 50 dollars total.


atc250r
(Senior Ricer)
11/08/04 03:49 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

That looks great curtis. I'm glad you got it running. I am tempted to try it but I usually play with my timing whenever I go to the track so I'd have to disconnect it every time.

John


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/08/04 04:01 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Thanks to atc250r , fast vr4 , Josh long , pisces and cheekychimp for there contribution to the cause.
I'll draw it up and post it tommorow for all to see.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/08/04 05:31 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Awesome info, you guys rule for posting this.

kartorium
(hillbilly racer)
11/08/04 06:23 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

50$ is awesome, nice job curtis. Way to stick it out! I was searching ebay and found probably the same setup going for 250$. Definitely cool to know we can do it ourselves for 50 or so.

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/08/04 06:52 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

He doesn't want to have to switch the coil over back to stock because there's no easy way to hook up the lead around the #1 wire to set the timing.

For you guys that doubt the performance of these things, I promiss there worth the effort. I don't know if its worth 500 but defanietly worth the price of a set of wires.

I'm not sure what Dave Buschur is using but I know there Dodge coils. The next time I'm at the dealership I'll talk to the parts guy and find out which one it is by the picture of Tim's car that was in Turbo magazine a few months ago.

The guys at the local Junk yard sell everything in increments of 5 dollars that way they have the tax figuered out in there head and cash sells don't always go in the register.

They wanted 15 a piece for the coils but I talked them down to 75 plus tax for 6 coils, the relay for the wipers and the projectors out of the Diamante lights.

I can't wait to find a few more wrecked intepids/dodge's. I'll start mass production of these's things.

Hope this helps you guys out, Oh and sorry to Buschur and Dejon tool.


kartorium
(hillbilly racer)
11/08/04 06:59 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Whats the PN of these coils?

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/08/04 07:04 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:

The guys at the local Junk yard sell everything in increments of 5 dollars that way they have the tax figuered out in there head and cash sells don't always go in the register.

They wanted 15 a piece for the coils but I talked them down to 75 plus tax for 6 coils, the relay for the wipers and the projectors out of the Diamante lights.






I'll have to check my ten dollar lot. Thats anything I can carry out for 10 dollars per trip.

Mark


JNR
(5 star (English Professor) member Has extensive pop up picture book collection)
11/08/04 07:20 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

That's awesome you got it to work! I love the spirit of finding the 'hot rod' way of doing it and going from there That brings up alot of possibility, as far packaging and wiring and such, to make it both clean, beautiful and functional (yours looks good, btw)...Thanks for writing up about it; this is something that'll work great with my RS Manifold 'build up', as it even eliminates making a bracket for the coil, he he...

CO VR4
(Senior Member)
11/08/04 07:23 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

A pretty well known guy here in the Rocky Mountain DSM arena did some extensive research on these setups using the Chrysler 300M coils and built several setups. It seems that the downfall was that the stock ECU could not control coil dwell, speed, and volt charge setups, causing problems with the setups over time. Don't know if that will be your experience, but keep it in mind.

omegavr4
(Junior Member)
11/08/04 09:05 PM
Re: Coil over plug????



**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/09/04 04:56 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:






Wiring them in parallel will make the charge go to the coil with lesser resistance, that's why they should be wired in series as mentioned before.


sleepyvr4
(I Hate Kitty Cats)
11/09/04 06:26 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

wow. a vfaq would be awesome on this one...

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/09/04 06:58 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:

Whats the PN of these coils?




I'm not sure. Some of the cars at the yard have the year maked on the windshield with a paint pen but not this one. All I know it was a Dodge Intrepid.
By the mounting points being on the top and bottom there different than the ones Buschur sells because his have one on top and the side, and seam to be shorter (If that matters). The May 2004 Turbo magizine had a write up on Tim's car with some pretty good pictures. I thought of this idea about 3 years ago and after seeing it I had to do it.

I looked closer at the coils. In a dot matrix stamp on the side it has

04609
095AD 0458.

Hope it helps


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/09/04 07:17 AM
Re: Coil over plug????



I forgot to draw the littleblack box thingy thats mounted with our factory coils it gets wired on the intersection of the 12volt Galant wire and the two wires going to 1 and 3.

If you guys do this using Junk Yard parts pull the wiring harness and cut the plugs using as much wire as you can get. I cut mine about 3 inches and had to do a lot more connecting than I should have.


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/09/04 07:37 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

This probably needs to be posted in the how to section now.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/09/04 11:36 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Quote:

A pretty well known guy here in the Rocky Mountain DSM arena did some extensive research on these setups using the Chrysler 300M coils and built several setups. It seems that the downfall was that the stock ECU could not control coil dwell, speed, and volt charge setups, causing problems with the setups over time. Don't know if that will be your experience, but keep it in mind.



I seem to remember this. Being that the 300M/Intrepid coils weren't meant to be used in a waste-spark system they were burning out prematurely. The dwell time on the coils was greatly reduced when they were used in a waste-spark system and they were overheating and dying eventually. Not sure if the wiring was different than the way curtis has them wired up. Time will tell. Keep us posted on your results curtis!


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/09/04 11:43 AM
Re: Coil over plug????

Ran by the dealership this morning. They come on the 2001 Intrepids and are the same for either engine combo. They list for 50.68 each. They were busy and I didn't check on the ones buschur sells.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/09/04 01:12 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Hmmmm..very interesting post, but someone better find out for sure about the series vs parallel thing. In series, each coil is only going to be seeing 6 volts. In parallel, the ECU will need to be sinking twice the current. Neither seems like an ideal situation to me, unless Chrysler uses 6 volt coils.

curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
11/09/04 07:35 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

Don't know but I'll stick the multimeter on her tommorrow while she's running.
The idle has clear up some, the off throttle response is better and driveability seams better also. In a few weeks I'll be able to see if the fuel economy has increased. The new hasn't worn off yet and my foot has been in the throttle alot today.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/10/04 06:47 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

That doesn't sound right. Shouldn't the secondary coils be seeing more like 100 volts? So if we wanted to even things back out we could replace the primary coil with an appropriately sized unit, right? Or am I missing something....

gaylantvr4
(Joe)
11/11/04 05:40 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

i though in series each coil would get less. 12 then 9 then 6 and then 3 but in a parallel circut gets all 12 volts to each coil

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
11/21/04 08:47 PM
Re: Coil over plug????

You mean the Ignition transistor will the sinking twice the current. The ECU runs the transistor.

JNR
(5 star (English Professor) member Has extensive pop up picture book collection)
01/18/05 01:52 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

So, Curtis, how is this setup holding up for you, after 2+ months? I am interested in going with this setup in the future, but would like to get a first-hand account of the 'reliability', etc...I have a source thru Napa to get these at a decent price, but curious what other types of coils would fare well with our ignitions?

Thanks,


curtis
(Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic)
01/21/05 06:52 AM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

Well the car sat in the garage for a weeks around christmas then I DESTORYED YET ENOTHER GEARBOX but the coils are fine and have had zero problems from them. The driveability went up along with acceleration in traffic with out downshifing. The car pulls to redline with no spark knock at all. And also the idle improved and this is after replacing the wires just a few months before. Since the build up a few of my buddies here in town went with the same set up and also love them. I found out the Dave Buchur sets are also intrepid coils but from a different motor. They have 2 differnt six cylinders in the cars but the only differance is the mounting flange. The ones I used have an aluminum rod that runs through the boot where the ones Buchur uses have a spring in the middle. I got lucky with the ones I found because the aluminum will pass the current easier than through a spring. The dealer here in town priced them to me for 35 a piece cost and list to joe off the street was a little over 50 each. Try and find them used so you can get the plugs and also get as much wire out of the harness as possible it will make the buildup a lot easier.

GVR-4
(Creative Name Huh?)
01/26/05 11:03 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

I found this:

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=11190


turboflanagan
(I would give myself something respectable.)
02/20/05 08:28 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

It sounds like the ones you got were off of an Intrepid with a 3.5L. I think the 2.7L has coils that look like what you say Buschur's look like.

In my 7+ years in a Chrysler brand dealer I think I have replaced Maybe 4 of the COP coils. They just don't go bad.

I might have to paint some blue and try them out. I have some off of a Hemi engine that I was thinking about using for this very purpose. And the Hemi's do use waste spark, but they will still fire half as often as mine at the same rpm.


gaylantvr4
(Joe)
02/22/05 03:44 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

the coils come off a 2001 intrepid with a 2.7 dohc

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
02/23/05 10:11 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

Thanks to all those who added valuable info to this post. I was able to build a COP system and it works AWSOME, the car idles a lot better with the 880cc injectors and the over all power band is much much smoother. Great job Curtis and all the others who added to this post.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/12/05 10:27 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

i just bought the kit from dejon tool... rev is way way better especially in higher rpms and im running iridiums with it.

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
03/20/05 04:58 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

I just installed my home-made kit today (GSXR coils) and it seems to be working fine. I can't say for sure if it's idling better or "rev's easier" than before, but I gave 'em hell today and the held up to everything I threw at them. I've got a lot of pictures if anybody wants some email me at [email protected] or [email protected] I'll try to post up again in a couple months and let you know how they're holding up, or if/when I have any problems.

Cory


boostedinaz
(Fatty McButterpants)
11/27/06 08:10 PM
Re: Coil over plug is done with pictures

I wanted to add to this for some that might come down the road a bit later as well as ask a question.

Curtis,

I see that in your drawing it shows the wire colors of white and green. My problem if that I didn't get the connectors with wires when I got my coils, so is the green wire the wire on top or on the bottom of the coil harness? I looked at your pictures and it appears that the green wire goes on top and the white goes on bottom.

If that is correct what effects would having the wires opposite of that have on the car?


Also you said to wire in the "little black box" into the junction of the black wire and the 1 & 3 coil. Is this the box you are talking about?

I am having some misfire issues and I am assuming it is becaue I forgot to wire in the black box, however it appears I swapped the wires on my coils as well. Hopefully the answer here will clear up any confusion thatmay arise for others.



Contact Us | Privacy statement GalantVR-4.org

Generated in 0.004 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 4 queries. Turbo powered.


Hertz's Galant VR-4 Page