**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
04/27/03 04:35 AM
Factory Spec wheel alignment

Does anyone know what's the factory spec wheel alignment? Like the degrees for camber, toe, etc.

Turbo4door1
(Paid to pewp)
04/27/03 07:18 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Front:

Camber between 0 and 1
Caster between 1.44 and 2.44
Toe between -.13 and +.13

Rear:

Camber between -1.50 and -.50
Toe between 0 and .25


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
04/28/03 11:13 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Why is the front camber positive???? I just got my alignment from the dealer and they told me the same thing. Isn't it better to have 0 - (-.5) degree camber in the front??? My front tires look kind of tilted and the outer treads are getting rounded out a bit. Should I take it back and have them redo it???

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
04/28/03 01:06 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Sorry, but I don't think front camber is adjustable on stock GVR4s. You getz what you getz.

markrieb
(Senior Member)
04/29/03 11:28 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

You can get some negative camber from the stock suspension.

Try the following for performance street driving. This should not be hard on tires, but if it is, add some toe *in*.

Front camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees each side
Front Caster: Non adjustable from the factory, but do yourself a favor and get the cheap (~$35) Whiteline offset caster bushings and get as much Caster as possible
Front Toe: 0. If your tires can stand the wear and you want quicker turn-in, go with about 1/16" of toe out. If you start to see feathering of the inside edges of the tires, you can go to 1/16" of toe *in*.

Rear Camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Rear Toe: 0

These numbers are just inside the factory specifications.

Make sure you bounce the car a couple of times after setting the camber and toe, then double check the numbers.

Also make sure the tech follows the technical service bulletin on the rear about disconnecting the AWS rams to set the rear. If it doesn't show for the GVR-4, have them look in their book for the 3KGT VR-4 as it is nearly the same system.

For autocrossing, increase the front camber to around 3 degrees or more and toe the front out about 1/16". If you need to loosen up the rear a bit, you can toe it out some too.

Mark Rieb


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
04/30/03 01:50 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by markrieb:

Also make sure the tech follows the technical service bulletin on the rear about disconnecting the AWS rams to set the rear. If it doesn't show for the GVR-4, have them look in their book for the 3KGT VR-4 as it is nearly the same system.

Mark Rieb

aw crap where can i find a tsb printable version of this? I just got an alignment today and im off in the front left camber.

number3
(Senior Member)
06/03/03 08:55 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by markrieb:
You can get some negative camber from the stock suspension.

Try the following for performance street driving. This should not be hard on tires, but if it is, add some toe *in*.

Front camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees each side
Front Caster: Non adjustable from the factory, but do yourself a favor and get the cheap (~$35) Whiteline offset caster bushings and get as much Caster as possible
Front Toe: 0. If your tires can stand the wear and you want quicker turn-in, go with about 1/16" of toe out. If you start to see feathering of the inside edges of the tires, you can go to 1/16" of toe *in*.

Rear Camber: -1 to -1.5 degrees
Rear Toe: 0

These numbers are just inside the factory specifications.

Make sure you bounce the car a couple of times after setting the camber and toe, then double check the numbers.

Also make sure the tech follows the technical service bulletin on the rear about disconnecting the AWS rams to set the rear. If it doesn't show for the GVR-4, have them look in their book for the 3KGT VR-4 as it is nearly the same system.

For autocrossing, increase the front camber to around 3 degrees or more and toe the front out about 1/16". If you need to loosen up the rear a bit, you can toe it out some too.

Mark Rieb

Mark,

What would you change (above) with TEINS? I would like to get this setup this week.

Harry


markrieb
(Senior Member)
06/04/03 10:41 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Harry, I don't think I'd change anything for normal street use. Open track settings fall between the street and autox settings. A car optimized for autox will be twitchy and jumpy on a larger, higher speed track.

For as few miles as you put on your car, and if you are willing to put up with a little tire wear for better performance (or if you drive hard enough for it not to make a difference...), I might go a bit higher on the camber, maybe 2 to 2.5 degrees negative in front, but stay around 1.5 to 2 in the rear.

You can also toe out the front about 1/16". This will really sharpen turn in, but will make the car a bit twitchy and it will want to trammel/follow the grooves in the road. If the car is too much on an open track, turn the toe back down to zero. Leave the toe in the rear at zero.

I don't know how much caster the Tein's allow, but pretty much go for all you can get.

If you are real serious, find somebody with some wheel scales and use them to set your coil over heights/corner weights. Mike C. at DSS had some numbers somewhere on where to set your corner weights.

These setting will be a bit hard on tires if you do much highway driving, but should balance things out nicely on the track.

Mark


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/04/03 01:00 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Mark,

I just installed a set of H&R / AGX combo (GVR4 Specific) I am going to get my car aligned soon should i follow factory spec?....

I am looking to get even tire wear as my car is my daily at this point

And in order to get my vehicle in spec am i going to need camber hardware for the front and the back as well?...

I had my eye on this for the front eibach front camber bolts

and this for the rear whiteline rear bushing camber kit but they are currently out of stock on the rear's [Frown]

should that hardware do the trick?...Or can i get by without them?...

Thanks,Dave


number3
(Senior Member)
06/04/03 01:00 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

I plan to corner weigh the car (the reason for the Teins). Do you think you could round up those numbers for me that Mike published?

I also can not seem to get the front of the car to come down. It seems to want to stay at 15 1/2" from hub to fender. Any ideas why?

Harry


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/04/03 03:47 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by DongeR615:
quote:
Originally posted by markrieb:

Also make sure the tech follows the technical service bulletin on the rear about disconnecting the AWS rams to set the rear. If it doesn't show for the GVR-4, have them look in their book for the 3KGT VR-4 as it is nearly the same system.

Mark Rieb

aw crap where can i find a tsb printable version of this? I just got an alignment today and im off in the front left camber.
Try this link:
http://www.dsmchips.com/~keydiver/gvralign.pdf
http://www.dsmchips.com/~keydiver/gvr4_tsb.pdf
Jeff O.

[ 07-30-2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: keydiver ]


markrieb
(Senior Member)
06/05/03 10:24 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Dook,

Follow my original settings 1 to 1.5 degree of negative camber all 4 corners, zero toe at both ends. You shouldn't have any unusual tire wear at these settings. But, make sure you bounce the car between settings and double check them and use the TSB for the rear AWS.

Harry,

I'll dig for the info, but I'm restricted to a phone line at work. Give me a day or so.

Mark


number3
(Senior Member)
06/05/03 04:14 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by markrieb:


Harry,

I'll dig for the info, but I'm restricted to a phone line at work. Give me a day or so.

Mark

No problem. I am taking the car on Monday to have the work done.


Thanks,

Harry


markrieb
(Senior Member)
06/06/03 03:30 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Harry,

I couldn't find anything easily. Your best bet is to call Mike at DSS.

For Order & Tech Calls: (805) 541-4483 Fax Number: (805) 541-7165

Sorry,

Mark


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/06/03 04:00 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

sorry to hijack: (I am totally ignorant with the suspension knowledge)
Had the wifes aligned a few weeks ago and it sucks. After replacing the tie rod ends, alignment shop did there work and it pulls to the left very noticeably. They rotated the tires and said it was set to factory spec. It still pulled to the left (less but still noticeable) and the rear camber or castor (always get those confused) looks like a 400lb person in the back it angles in so much! Funny that it doesn't pull so much to the left when on the throttle firmly...I'd bet that's how the tech test drove it [Mad] so he didn't notice it as much...
I need to take it back, but I don't know jack about the specs and was just going to put one of the guys in the car and let it vear left towards oncoming traffic while he tells me it's o.k.!!!


HertzGalant VR4.org Administrator
(OneTitle to rule them all.)
06/06/03 04:10 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Question is, did they do the rear correctly?

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/06/03 04:12 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Ignorant me...I don't know if they did any of it correctly. It drove better from the "guestimate" after the R&R on the tie-rods in the garage.

iceman69510
(Turn Right Racing)
06/06/03 11:57 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Kevin,

Major contributors to pull are:

Uneven caster (fore/aft angle of front susp),one side may have been pushed back.
Uneven camber (called cross camber on alignment equipment) with measurements too far from nominal in opposite directions or out of spec one side,
Rear thrust angle causing rear steer input (incorrect or biased one side rear toe-in usually)
Bad tire.
Were the rears brought to the front possibly?
( I had this on my minivan with one dodgy tire that made its way to the left front).

Typically, with front camber and toe "not adjustable" from the factory, most alignment techs will leave them where ever they are, even if not very good. Since the car was tweaked (this is the one from the deer incident, correct)you may need some "abnormal" settings or adjustment equipment to make it work right.


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/08/03 09:27 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Thanks David,
This was right before the 'deer adjustment", but who knows, maybe the car had previos adjustments.

The tires are fairly new.

I guess I'll have to see if they can set it where it works for just this car or maybe another shop that can.

Are some of you guys doing this yourself? If so, how involved of a process is it...special tools, etc. Uggh, it maybe one of those other things I have to learn to do myself only because I don't trust a local shop to do it!
TIA again.


ken inn
(BJ Titsengolf lifer)
06/08/03 11:25 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

yo, kevin, i KNEW my car was slightly off, and i took it to a body shop with a laser frame machine. just to put it on the machine costs 45 bucks, then it is hourly from then on. they verified the frame was off, and they could not pull it straight. they ended up putting ingalls kits on the front, and trued it to spec. huge difference. total was 350, but from now on a total alignment is only 70 bucks, because now they know the settings. they gave me back all kinds of printouts on what was done, and what is supposed to be there.

number3
(Senior Member)
06/13/03 04:24 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by number3:
I plan to corner weigh the car (the reason for the Teins). Do you think you could round up those numbers for me that Mike published?

I also can not seem to get the front of the car to come down. It seems to want to stay at 15 1/2" from hub to fender. Any ideas why?

Harry

Well here are the figures... [Confused]


LF

Camber -.03
caster 3.26
toe .07

RF

Camber -.33
caster 3.32
toe .06

FRONT

cross camber .29
cross caster -.07
total toe .13
wheel base difference .07
track width diff -.42
track width 60.5"
ride highth 13.64"

LR

camber -1.12
toe .42

RR

camber -.68
toe .42

REAR

Total toe .82
thrust angle .00
set back .14
axle offset .00
track width 59.7"
ride height 13.24"


turbowop
(Hard Snarker)
06/13/03 05:31 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

quote:
Originally posted by number3:


I also can not seem to get the front of the car to come down. It seems to want to stay at 15 1/2" from hub to fender. Any ideas why?

Harry

Sorry I didn't reply to this earlier. I didn't see this thread. It's the tall bumpstop that Tein uses in the front. I ran into the same problem. I trimmed half of it down. I'm not sure the reason for the big ass bumpstop but with it there it really limits travel when you lower the car substantially. With the shocks off the car I tested to make sure the shaft could go all the way into the body without the bumpstop and sure enough it did so I don't think that trimming the bumpstops will hurt the shocks.

markrieb
(Senior Member)
06/14/03 09:20 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Harry,

I'd like to see the right and left sides more balanced, i.e., you should have nearly the same camber on the right as the left, both front and rear.

I'd also like to see a little less toe in the rear.

Where did your corner weights end up?

Mark


number3
(Senior Member)
06/14/03 03:41 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

http://www.galantvr4.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002501

**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/14/03 07:06 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Those corner weights are close enough to ideal that I wouldn't mess with them.

However, if you really do want to mess with them, you need to corner weight the car with YOU in it and the amount of gas you race with (probably 1/2 tank or more).

Obviously, ideal is equal weight on all 4 tires. Since this won't happen, go for equal weight side to side. If you can't achieve that, go for equal diagonal weights. Though the car won't handle as well turning one direction vs the other, it'll feel the same.

Mark (the other one)


number3
(Senior Member)
06/14/03 09:24 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

...with a someone about 20lbs heavier than me in the driver seat and still very little gas.

1038 937


797 732


Thanks Marks I am very interested in your comments if you have more. I really want to start to understand more on this aspect of the car.

Harry


markrieb
(Senior Member)
06/16/03 11:18 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Harry,

Without taking up an apprenticeship with a NASCAR team, buy a book called "How to Make Your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn. My local Barnes and Noble usually keeps a copy on the shelf, list price is around $20, usually found for less.

Quite a bit of time is spent explaining all of the suspension terms, what the different numbers should be, how the car is affected if they are not what they should be, et..

A couple of other books that have been recommended, but I haven't read are:

Performance Handling/How to Make Your Car Handle Techniques for the 1990's or High-Performance Handling Handbook by Don Alexander

Chassis Engineering/Chassis Design, Building & Tuning for High Performance Handling by Herb Adams (of F-Body fame)

Tune to Win by Carroll Smith

Mark Rieb


number3
(Senior Member)
06/16/03 02:40 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Thanks Mark,

I have the Adams book and I will pick up the Puhn.

Number3 can finally be driven again.

Harry


number3
(Senior Member)
06/16/03 09:34 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Well I drove number3 today for some break in miles and the car seems to handle pretty well, so far as I can tell.

The rear top nuts on the Tiens keep coming loose. I think I have a fix though. I need to soften them up (currently on #8) the car bounces real hard over bumps. They are much stiff than the AGX/H&R combo.

Harry

I started a new thread for better search archives.

http://www.galantvr4.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002579


**DONOTDELETE**
(Unregistered)
06/16/03 11:13 PM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

Here's my page on book recommendations. Its probably outdated (along with everything else).

http://www.minnstech.com/books.htm

Strangely enough, I highly recommend the Mustang book. They use mcpherson struts in the front same as we do and it details their ways to overcome its inherent disadvantages. The other books tend to give more info on race track suspensions like doube wishbone and SLAs.

I do disagree with the book on one aspect. It talks about how the only reason that Macpherson strut is used is for cost reasons. IMHO, mac strut is superior for rally and notice that the 911 has used this design as well for the past 30 years. Obviously, cost is not a concern with that car.

Mark


number3
(Senior Member)
06/17/03 06:53 AM
Re: Factory Spec wheel alignment

[Cool]

I have the Mustang performance, because of my V8 Miata and I love that book. I have it marked and highlighted all over the place.

It is written so well but nothing on the suspension. Maybe that is what book two is about. I will gladly check it out. Thanks.

Harry



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