WASTEGATES

[coyotes]

Holset is a brand that is not mitsubishi (16g). You will have to adapt the wastegate actuator to fit on your turbo. Or you could have your turbo wastegate ported out and do some other supporting modifications to improve your boost creep problem. Tell us more about your car's setup. mods?

Isn't running a 16g with an external dump is kind of obnoxious?

 

[prove_it]

If you haven't set up the turbo yet, how do you know it creeps?

If your going for more than 20 psi I doubt you'll have much creep anyway. It tends to happen more at lower psi targets.

 

[GVR4kauai]

Ya you have to make bracket to make it fit the 16g. Took me a hole 10 min to make one for mine, hold ill post a pick. Its super easy and works amazing!! If you pm justin (jusMX141) Dsmtuners he usually has them for sale.

 

[chop91vr4]

Quoting prove_it:
If you haven't set up the turbo yet, how do you know it creeps?

If your going for more than 20 psi I doubt you'll have much creep anyway. It tends to happen more at lower psi targets.



I never said anything about boost creep, just that I have been researching and see that external are more precise on regulating boost and I would have it dump back into the exhaust so it wouldn't be obnoxious.

 

[strokin4dr]

Waste of time and money. Internal gate works fine.

 

[prove_it]

Quoting chop91vr4:
Quoting prove_it:
If you haven't set up the turbo yet, how do you know it creeps?

If your going for more than 20 psi I doubt you'll have much creep anyway. It tends to happen more at lower psi targets.



I never said anything about boost creep, just that I have been researching and see that external are more precise on regulating boost and I would have it dump back into the exhaust so it wouldn't be obnoxious.



Oops, thought you had, my bad. I run a S16G at 22-25 psi via ecmlink boost controls. I have zero creep issues and can control it perfect down to 18psi. Less than that though it wants to creep due to the amount the wastegate is trying to bypass. I'm using a 2.5" exhaust which helps control creep a lot. 3" exhaust has so little back-pressure that the exhaust gases will try to go out the turbine instead of the wastegate due to the lesser pressure. That's what causes creep on 16g turbos. Your planning on running over 20lbs boost, so the likely hood of having a boost creep even with 3" exhaust is very slim. You may see a spike in pressure upon spool up, just due to the characteristics of the quick spool, but it will settle down to your target. This little spike is fun and will not be an issue.

You can run an external gate, but for what your describing, you don't HAVE to run one to control the boost where you'd like. Save your money for other more important upgrades.

 

[tektic]

Just to give you some reference, with my 3" cat-less turbo back exhaust and the s16G with the stock wg connected to nipple on the compressor cover, it surges to ~19-20lbs @ wot. That's as low as I can keep it with an evo3 hot side, Stock flapper, notch removed and ported for flow. Also part of the system is a ported 2g manifold and o2 Housing.

 

[Spyke169]

Is there a problem you are trying to correct? Or simply a hypothetical, would this be a good idea?

In theory you could construct a bracket that fits over the internal wastegate flappers arm, and attaches elsewhere to hold the flapper closed. Would it seal 100%? Who knows. The better route would be welding the flapper shut. But why? At the lighter engine load of a low boost level on a 16g, the engine will not be producing too much exhaust for the internal wastegate to handle. Using an external wastegate is pointless (unless you are trying to run lower than factory boost level) If it isn't broke don't try and fix it.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting turbowop:
Quoting Wookalar:
Quoting turbowop:
Yeah, you weld that sh*t shut and you're gonna need to plumb the 'gate off a manifold runner or at the collector.


I was thinking of the o2 housing like old school victory performance racing with the small tube coming off the wg hole and a square flange welded on it for an old school tial gate. I would have to look at a mitsu turbine housing but I could swear there was a hole on the front that gets welded shut. Like FP red or green that were converted to external gate.



I see. Like manikbastrd mentioned, the hole for the pin that the flapper rotates on would need to be welded shut. That's actually the setup I used on my old FPgreen.

Actually, I think mine was just tapped and then plugged with an allen grub screw.



^^ same thing on my FPRed on the old car.

 

[chop91vr4]

Quoting prove_it:
Quoting chop91vr4:
Quoting prove_it:
If you haven't set up the turbo yet, how do you know it creeps?

If your going for more than 20 psi I doubt you'll have much creep anyway. It tends to happen more at lower psi targets.



I never said anything about boost creep, just that I have been researching and see that external are more precise on regulating boost and I would have it dump back into the exhaust so it wouldn't be obnoxious.



Oops, thought you had, my bad. I run a S16G at 22-25 psi via ecmlink boost controls. I have zero creep issues and can control it perfect down to 18psi. Less than that though it wants to creep due to the amount the wastegate is trying to bypass. I'm using a 2.5" exhaust which helps control creep a lot. 3" exhaust has so little back-pressure that the exhaust gases will try to go out the turbine instead of the wastegate due to the lesser pressure. That's what causes creep on 16g turbos. Your planning on running over 20lbs boost, so the likely hood of having a boost creep even with 3" exhaust is very slim. You may see a spike in pressure upon spool up, just due to the characteristics of the quick spool, but it will settle down to your target. This little spike is fun and will not be an issue.

You can run an external gate, but for what your describing, you don't HAVE to run one to control the boost where you'd like. Save your money for other more important upgrades.


Great thank you for the info, so bad news now, I took apart the 16G that came in a box with the car that I was rebuilding and saw all kinds of cracks in the exhaust housing side, it's garbage! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif

 

[chop91vr4]

Quoting Spyke169:
Is there a problem you are trying to correct? Or simply a hypothetical, would this be a good idea?

In theory you could construct a bracket that fits over the internal wastegate flappers arm, and attaches elsewhere to hold the flapper closed. Would it seal 100%? Who knows. The better route would be welding the flapper shut. But why? At the lighter engine load of a low boost level on a 16g, the engine will not be producing too much exhaust for the internal wastegate to handle. Using an external wastegate is pointless (unless you are trying to run lower than factory boost level) If it isn't broke don't try and fix it.



Yes just hypothetical trying to get the best out of what I got already, like I just posted the exhaust housing side is all cracked internally to hell, not sure how the hell they did that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

 

[coyotes]

you can find replacement housings on ebay

click

you can also use a 14b housing.

 

[prove_it]

I would run an ebay 7cm housing over the 14b housing. Try finding a non crack 14b housing now in days. Plus it's a big bottleneck.

 

[tektic]

It should be said that the metal used to make the mhi 16g turbine housing is far superior to the materials used for the eBay knock off version. For instance, The stock grade 11 turbo to manifold bolts will rip out the threads in the housing very easily. Ask me how I know.

Edit: Mentioning this only because if you can find any good condition mhi unit new or used thats probably a better option. With that said every 14b I have ever seen had a crack in it somewhere. I belive I read that the evo 3 and newer had more nickel mixed in with the steel.

 

[prove_it]

Yep, higher nickel. Obviously a MHI unit will be better than a Taiwanese ebay item. But they tend to be a tad more pricey.

 

[manikbastrd]

I have an uncracked 14b housing if someone needs it.

 

[chop91vr4]

Quoting coyotes:
you can find replacement housings on ebay

click

you can also use a 14b housing.



THE 14b is the same ehaust housing? No SH_T! I figured since the intake side was a bigger inlet hole the exhaust side would be also.

 

[prove_it]

The TDO5H on the turbo refers to the turbine wheel size. TDO6H is bigger and won't work. That's on 20g turbos though. The 14b, S16G, B16G all share the same turbine. The difference in housings is that the size of the inlet and turbine inlet are bigger on the 16G's. This effects high rpm flow and spool up. Smaller sizes like the 14b choke at high rpms but spool faster. They are completely interchangeable though.

 

[chop91vr4]

QUOTE" The TDO5H on the turbo refers to the turbine wheel size. TDO6H is bigger and won't work. That's on 20g turbos though. The 14b, S16G, B16G all share the same turbine. The difference in housings is that the size of the inlet and turbine inlet are bigger on the 16G's. This effects high rpm flow and spool up. Smaller sizes like the 14b choke at high rpms but spool faster. They are completely interchangeable though.


So just want to clarify the only difference is in the turbine side not the exhaust (compressor) side? So I can use my 14b's and there won't be any difference in using that one and it will be just like it was a complete B16G?

 

[coyotes]

the 14b exhaust side will fit but it has a smaller inlet/outlet. It will work but not flow as efficient.