Might be purchasing a VR4, any advice?

[Racah15]

Hello everyone, My name is Abe and I am from CoSprings, CO.I am recently in the market for a GVR4, but I honestly know nothing about them. I was wondering if it would be possible to shed some light on my newbish-ness.

Let me introduce myself.
I am 20 years old and am quite mature for my age. I don't do drugs, drinking, smoking, or ricers. I have owned 3 DSMs and none of them have been molested. I currently own 2, one of which I will (hopefully) be trading pretty soon.

I started with my first 2g 1996 Eagle talon. I knew nothing about cars and I was 16. My uncle sold it to me on the condition I wouldn't rice it out or race it. Well 1/2 isn't bad. Currently it sits awaiting frame repair (purchased with frame damage originally, but I finally have the parts to replace the front end), hoping to hit the 650hp mark (at 6300ft!).

Current mods:
6bolt engine:
-Arias 8.8 compression pistons
-Eagle Rods
-ARP mains
-ARP 2000 rod bolts
-New OEM oil pump
-Clevite 77 Rod bearings
-Clevite Main bearings

7bolt head:
-Kelford 272/272 cams
-Supertech dual valve springs
-Titanium retainers
-ARP L19 headstuds
-Cometic MLS HG
-Black top cas
-JMF Race SMIM
-61mm 6bolt TB

Trans:
Custom built "HD" 90 internal transmission in 2g bellhousing
Welded center differential
New syncros
New hubsliders
PTT ceramic twin disk

Turbo:
-PTE 6157 Journal bearing
-MAP o2 housing
-Tial Vband wastegate
-DNP Tubular manifold

Cooling:
-ETS 2g Super short RACE FMIC kit
-Nitrous Express N-tercooler
-Koyo Rad aluminum radiator

Fuel:
-FIC 1600cc injectors
-2x Walbro 255 (1 inline 1 intank)
-6 Feed/Return SS Braided fuel line
-Aeromotive a1000 FPR

Ignition:
-Dynatek ARC-2 CDI
-Sparktek COP
-NGK BR8es

Electronics:
DSMLink v3 (AEM EMS v2 soon)
AEM Wideband Uego

Appearance:
Black paintjob.
Shaved/tucked engine bay
Relocated battery
Recaro seats
All black interiour
Volk te37 wheels
Nitto N555r drag radials
Hayame Coilover suspension
Ingalls front and rear camber kit
1997 conversion with 1995 "twistie" sideskirts
Red-ed out tail lights (I hate the amber in talon tail lights)

I'm sure there's more, but thats all I got for now.

I'm sure you are aware by now I am familiar with DSMs, but I got nothing on Galants.

What should I check for?

When purchasing a 2g I always check for balljoints, tcase leakage, any rust, check any recalls, leaks, BSE or not etc etc etc. Is there anything similar I need to do about Galants? I am going to look at one to possibly trade my other 1997 eagle, but I want to go informed.
How does AWS work. The guy is offering a 4bolt rear end in part of the trade. Does this delete AWS? Do I have to eliminate P/S lines if AWS uses that method. How easy is it to do a 5lug swap? Do the balljoints on these fail as much as the 2g dsms do? Any particular oddities I need to know about (on 2g, notorious for shocktower rust, what should I look for in a galant, etc etc etc.)

Thanks for any and all help guys!!

Abe

 

[alansupra94]

These are things I would check for:
1. Check for rust. Everywhere. Make sure you ask about it because I am sure there is rust hiding somewhere.
2. Ask him what has been done to the electrical system. People tend to hack the electrical system to sh*t.
3. Check the AWS for leaks and damage. I would recommend removing it but some people like it. It isn't that tough to remove.
4. Check the fuel pump assembly for rust. Those things like to rust out and become a pain in the ass to deal with.
5. Check the ECU for leaking capacitors. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. If the ECU has leaking capacitors and caught early enough, they can be replaced. However, if they have been leaking awhile, it could be fubared.

As for your questions:
1. A 5 lug swap is very easy to do. Just have to source out the parts. Alot of people do the ABS delete one time since most people don't keep the wheel sensor gears (require to be pressed on and what not)
2. Galants don't seem to have ball joint issues as much as 2Gs do but I would still check the whole suspension setup. Worst case, you can find good quality replacement set for $60 (I gotta dig up the link and this includes ball joints, inner/outer tie rods, etc.)

 

[LIV4PSI]

The 4 bolt rear end doesn't necessarily eliminate the AWS. If it is just the diff and axles, it won't. If it is a complete DSM 4 bolt rear subframe, then it will. If you delete it, you can just cap the rear lines. I prefer removing them and switching to a DSM power steering reservoir. There is a good chance the current AWS system is already leaking or inoperable. Its more of a novelty item anyways IMO.

If you are confident looking over a 2G DSM, you will be fine with the GVR4. There are far more similarities than differences. Some places to look for hidden rust
-underneath the dog legs and side skirts
-underneath fender liner area
-undersides of the doors (insides)
-sunroof surround if it has one

 

[transparentdsm]

also look for rust on the corners around the front and rear windshields.

 

[Racah15]

Thanks guys! I will look around for all of that. I will also post pics once I go see it.

Thanks again guys

 

[DR1665]

Three thoughts for someone like you looking to get a GVR4:

1. Remember that, even though we have a relatively identical powertrain, GVR4s are not DSMs.
Unfortunately, a lot of people hear about them from within the DSM community, leading to a rash of what I call "4-door DSM Mentality." You seem like you have a clear head on your shoulders; a do-it-right-the-first-time kinda guy. Think about the sh*t heels that cut corners in pursuit of power they have no interest in learning to maintain or control. These are the people who buy a GVR4, gut it, trash it, then part it out and crush it when nobody wants to give them more than 20 cents on the dollar for their mods when they finally get tired of fixing weak links.

2. You're not just buying a car, you're buying the seller and his story.
This is probably true of any car, but particularly important when looking to buy one of what is likely less than 1,500 GVR4s left in all of North America. There are tricks to hide knock. There are ways to prevent people from testing equipment works as advertised. There are also genuinely good people who are down on their luck or want to pursue a different dream. Does the seller come across as knowing WTF he's talking about? Watch for body language; lack of eye contact, changing the subject, black socks and a flatbrim hat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

3. Be honest with yourself. Buy the best specimen for your needs.
At the end of the day, the most important thing to look for is a clean, straight shell. For what you've got in that 600hp Talon, I bet you could have an absolutely gorgeous, 300-350awhp daily driver that looks like a million bucks. If that's what you're after, make sure the VR4-specific cosmetic bits are in good shape (serviceable). Make sure the body kit looks good. The "dog leg" that blends the lower side skirt into the wheel arches has to be one of the 10 most commonly requested parts crossing the FS section. You also want to check out the interior, too. Expect to find wear, splits, and such, but unless you want to re-upholster those seats (or replace them with Evo seats), pay close attention there.

The thing to remember is, the VR4-specific bits - the stuff that makes the car LOOK like a GVR4 on the surface - are the hardest to replace. Even though it seems serviceable 4G63s are getting harder and harder to find these days, you can still replace the bulk of the powertrain with bits scavenged from one of the half dozen or more DSMs at your local junk yard. Less than HALF of the 3,009 GVR4s sold on this continent 22 years ago remain by our best estimates. The DSM connection is a convenience. You are still looking to buy a rare, limited edition specialty vehicle.

Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PS: If you know the badge number, search this board for it. Nice thing about badge numbers is they make it easier to trace a car's history. 464/1000 lives with Mike in Albuquerque now. Earlier this year, it belonged to me in Phoenix. Before that, it belonged to Roger in Prescott. And before that, I'm told Bret somewhere in California "autocrossed the sh*t outta it."

 

[Racah15]

Hey, thanks for the kind words! It is sad, but true, what the fate of GVR4's are coming to. You are actually right, I do like to do things properly, and once. It's cheaper and more efficient (if only other people could realize this too). This is why I want to join the Galant club. I've always seen GVR4 people as more mature than DSM owners. From what I've seen GVR4 owners take more pride in their cars (there is the exception, as with all cars), but the majority seems to be level-headed. Every time I purchase a DSM, I always do maintenance first. I always do an oem timing belt change, along with any necessary needs. For example, I purchased this 1997 with a bad engine. I sourced a good 7 bolt and replaced everything with new oem components, such as the oil pump, rod bearings, etc. I redid the timing with new oem stuff and even used MAP 7bolt L19 headstuds to keep the head on nice an tight. I eliminated all of the previous owners wiring mess, and ebay junk, and replaced it with OEM stuff, or oem replacement stuff (I couldn't source a stock intercooler setup, so I made a water to air intercooler setup at my work [I work at silicone intakes/frozen boost]). It's always maintenance first, and I wish DSMers were more like this. It's sad to see that the DSM scene is filled with immature, cheap, honda-boi mentality teenagers/young adults that just want to go fast. I lost faith in my perfectly stock 1g, because 99% of all 1g guys here do things horribly! But that's what happens when you can find a 1g for $500 I guess. So I sold it, and got myself another 2g, and even still I am disappointed with the crowd I'm placed in. So after seeing more nice galants than riced/trashed ones, I think I am going to make the move to GVR4 (but I will never sell my 1996 talon). It's a real shame to see these brilliant platforms (4g63) molested by the masses. But I guess the only way to fix it is to set the bar.

The GVR4 I am buying doesn't run. Previous owner was a person who did what any cheap DSMer will do. So this guy just wants to sell it and not deal with the previous owners project. So I am fixing the previous owners mess. I am also trading my "rare" perfectly running daily driver because I feel I could better suit this Galant than the other prospects (all immature young guys as well says the current owner) Haha.
The first thing I am doing when I take that Galant home is:

1: Pull the engine and trans out.
2: Place the engine and trans out of the way, and replace ALL parts with brand new OEM parts.
3: Re-do the wiring harness
4: Shave all unnecessary holes and clean up the wiring harness.
5: Prep the car for paint (I prepped and painted at my old job)
6: Paint the car P26, Rally Red (Gorgeous color)
7: Replace the 4ws with a 1g rear subframe and 4bolt rear end.
8: Replace the 4lug hubs with 5 lugs.
9: Replace the blown ebay turbo setup.
10:Create a new Water/Air intercooler setup with stuff from my work.
11: Drive daily
__________________________

I do have a questions about the recaros. I currently have a set in my 1996 talon (which I don't like because they are the blue/black suede ones), and they really don't match my interior. I was hoping to get the black leather (with the red stitching) ones, and maybe pass along these into the galant (since the front seats are actually quite a bit worn). I was wondering if they are a bolt-on, or do they need brackets such as the ones in my 2g. I currently have Wedge Engineering brackets, and I am sure I can give them a call if I need to.

But thank you for your post. It's quite relieving to get feedback from someone as level-headed as yourself. I am glad I will hopefully be joining this great community and further distance myself from this awful DSM scene. Don't get me wrong, I love DSMs, I just don't like DSMers.

This is what I deal with:
click

This is possibly the cleaner side of DSMs where I am at:
click

But ^ is still not even good enough for me. There are so many things done wrong with that car it makes me sad. It makes me appreciate my talon more and more (Not trying to be conceited, but when I'm done, hopefully it will be magazine worthy). The engine bay shave and tuck didn't really take much time at all. And it looks 10x better than any 2g DSM here in colorado springs (that I've seen, again not trying to be conceited, but Colorado springs isn't a very clean dsm city. I know a few people with clean dsms, including a clean white GVR4, and those are the people I associate with.

So if all goes well, this Galant Vr4 (Not sure of the number yet) will go to a good home! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[LIV4PSI]

EVO seats need custom btackets. Curtis, a fellow member on here, did a group buy for aluminum rails. They are kind of pricey, but very nice and well engineered.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Quoting Racah15:
6: Paint the car P26, Rally Red (Gorgeous color)



I like everything on your list besides this step. Why not keep it the stock color?

 

[Racah15]

Thanks Liv4psi, I'll look into them.

Dark Horse: I have always had a soft spot for red Vr4's. As far as color choices, red isn't my favorite by far, but I can't help but admire the elegance of a red Vr4. My favorite car color is black, white pearl being next in line. So I was either going to go with Satin White Pearl (Found on most modern Subarus) or P26, Rally Red. I have painted 3 or 4 Valve covers this color, and I just fell in love with this red. Like I said, I'm not much of a red guy, but P26 is by far one of my favorites, and after seeing this Galant, It just made me melt.




I am not much for the rims, but color itself.... it's a perfect balance of elegance and "fierce"...

edit: Dark Horse, I believe I have picked up some stuff from you before? I think we've met. I remember the screen name from the CODSM Forums

 

[raptorWagon]

You can only run a 4bolt rear end with 4WS, IF you put the 4 bolt guts and axles in the stock 3 bolt housing otherwise you will need to remove all the 4WS components and no you don't need to swap a 1G dsm rear subframe to delete anything, just remove the rear rack. You could put 4WS in a 1G DSM if you really wanted to, their rear subframes have the provisions to for the rear rack. The 4 bolt housing doesn't have the hole in the top for the little 4WS pump that sits on the top of the vr4's stock pumpkin housing.
Pumpkin housing.

Curtis won't be doing another run of the seat brackets anytime soon, it was more of a one time thing to get them made due to cost of material.

Badge numbers and VINs are not related, no order to how they were numbered, so if that vr4 is missing it, there is a very slim chance you will find out what # it is unless the VIN was previously registered on here. With that in mind, when you get one, make sure to send iceman your VIN so he can update the registry.

 

[Jesus_Negros]

Quoting Dark_Horse:
Quoting Racah15:
6: Paint the car P26, Rally Red (Gorgeous color)



I like everything on your list besides this step. Why not keep it the stock color?



Because it's his car and money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Why modify a gvr4 and not keep it stock?

With that said, OP dont buy a gvr4 they're all turds! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Dark_Horse]

Quoting Racah15:
edit: Dark Horse, I believe I have picked up some stuff from you before? I think we've met. I remember the screen name from the CODSM Forums



We probably have. I used to have a 2G and I parted it out a couple years ago. So you may have driven up and bought some stuff from me.

 

[SouthCaliVR4]

Quoting raptorreed:
You can only run a 4bolt rear end with 4WS, IF you put the 4 bolt guts and axles in the stock 3 bolt housing otherwise you will need to remove all the 4WS components and no you don't need to swap a 1G dsm rear subframe to delete anything, just remove the rear rack. You could put 4WS in a 1G DSM if you really wanted to, their rear subframes have the provisions to for the rear rack. The 4 bolt housing doesn't have the hole in the top for the little 4WS pump that sits on the top of the vr4's stock pumpkin housing.
Pumpkin housing.

Curtis won't be doing another run of the seat brackets anytime soon, it was more of a one time thing to get them made due to cost of material.

Badge numbers and VINs are not related, no order to how they were numbered, so if that vr4 is missing it, there is a very slim chance you will find out what # it is unless the VIN was previously registered on here. With that in mind, when you get one, make sure to send iceman your VIN so he can update the registry.




Actually the dsm sub frame will not accommodate rear wheel steering, there are no bolt bosses for the rack or lines nor is the mounting tab for the rear pump present on a dsm. while there may be exceptions. the several I have had in my hot little hands where definitely different from the Gvr4.

 

[raptorWagon]

Of course there are no lines, that would be something you make yourself. You would yes have to drill some holes in the subframe for the rear rack, I actually don't know what you mean by there being a tab for the pump, since it's mounted and pivoted on the top of the differential. I had swapped a 1G subframe in my car, due to mine being cancer infested and cracked, but the only things I didn't see were the holes for holding the rear rack in place other wise you could with some work make the 4WS work on the subframe. just my perspective, but the differences are small and wouldn't take much to modify the subframe to accomodate rear steering. Without the rear rack, you just have passive 4WS, because all that rack did was force the toe one way or the other 1.5 degrees at speeds 30mph and above, unless you get the solid toe connecting rod for the trailing arms to eliminate any movement.

 

[Racah15]

Quoting raptorreed:
You can only run a 4bolt rear end with 4WS, IF you put the 4 bolt guts and axles in the stock 3 bolt housing otherwise you will need to remove all the 4WS components and no you don't need to swap a 1G dsm rear subframe to delete anything, just remove the rear rack. You could put 4WS in a 1G DSM if you really wanted to, their rear subframes have the provisions to for the rear rack. The 4 bolt housing doesn't have the hole in the top for the little 4WS pump that sits on the top of the vr4's stock pumpkin housing.
Pumpkin housing.

Curtis won't be doing another run of the seat brackets anytime soon, it was more of a one time thing to get them made due to cost of material.

Badge numbers and VINs are not related, no order to how they were numbered, so if that vr4 is missing it, there is a very slim chance you will find out what # it is unless the VIN was previously registered on here. With that in mind, when you get one, make sure to send iceman your VIN so he can update the registry.



Thanks for the info. Although I think I will just eliminate 4ws. It might be unpredictable here in the snowiest place in the U.S. Haha. Anywho, How do I go by and look up Vins/ Serials on here? And If I want to submit mine, where would I go to do that?

Thanks!

 

[raptorWagon]

PM iceman69510 your VIN and he can help you out, he's the one that maintains the Registry for all our cars.

 

[Racah15]

Awesome. Thanks!

I just found out the number 2 minutes ago. It's 1406/2000. Can't find any info on it though.

I'll post up pics this weekend once I pick it up