How similar are the GGSX and VR4

[James]

I know all the big differences, but there are some I'm learning everyday. My question is when buying parts for my GGSX-T, what car should I buy them for? If I want to get a new coilover setup should I order VR4 coilovers? 1g DSM coilovers? Because its
Not very easy to find aftermarket parts for the GGSX. I tried a basic search and didn't come up with the answers, probably because this is a VR4 site and not a GSX site. Thanks in advance, and I don't need to be spoon fed, if I missed a link just tell me where it's at and I can go read on my own.

 

[fuel]

A GGSX is essentially a VR-4 just minus the turbo and the 4WS. You will need the GVR-4 coilovers. GGSX has a different final drive and rear diff ratio than the GVR-4 and the DSM but you can swap in a GVR-4 or DSM gearbox and rear diff/subframe.

 

[James]

Quick and easy answer! Thank you!

 

[cheekychimp]

If you feel up to it you can also try shooting Josh (Alpha Male) a PM. He has done a few of these turbo GGSX conversions and I'm sure he can answer any specific questions that you might have. You sound as if you know what you are doing so Josh might go easy on you ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

A lot of people say the GGSX if turbo'd correctly is a better car because it is significantly lighter and already has a lot of the parts on it as standard that have to be sourced and fitted by GVR4 owners looking to delete things like the 4WS.

Fuel has as always pretty much put it in a nutshell. Only thing that I would add is don't junk the GGSX transmission. At the very least, keep the rear diff plus the front and rear and ring and pinions. As it stands, the GGSX transmission is pretty weak and under turbo power they can break quite easily. However if you mate the final drive ratios of the GGSX with the stronger EVO III or EVO/RS GVR4 gears from a 3.909 ratio car you get a very good set of drag ratio gears. I say good because if you check the ratios that you end up with they come very close to the ratios used in Magnus' Dogmission gear set and I'm pretty sure Magnus put a fair amount of research into their ratios when making that custom gear set.

I was going to go that route but unfortunately the GGSX rear ring and pinion is smaller and wouldn't fit over my plate LSD, hence why I suggest you keep the GGSX rear diff if you consider doing this. A plate LSD is better for going round corners but the GGSX hybrid gearbox arguably could be quicker in a straight line. it all depends on what you are going to do with the car.

Every so often people want to try that gearing combination however and the GGSX final ratios can be hard to source, so they are worth keeping or even posting up for sale if you don't want them as they can bring in a bit of cash to help fund other parts of your build.

Good luck with the project and drop Josh a line. I do remember him mentioning some odd bits and pieces that make the conversion easier, I want to say the engine harness, but I'm not completely sure. I think it was a toss up between adding a few connectors or just throwing in a GVR4 or DSM harness etc.

This particular conversion does fascinate me. I've been looking for a RHD Dynamic-4 (European spec GGSX) for years and never found one. Post up a few pics if you can. It is always nice to see new cars on the site.

Paul.

 

[EgonOlsen]

Im not sure the GTI Dynamic-4 comes in a RHD version.
But I know of 3-4 people here that have made the engine swap to a VR-4 turbo engine.

The Dynamic-4 have 4WS though as opposed to the GGSX, eccentially being the same car as the VR4 except for the engine being the N/A GTI version.

 

[James]

Thanks Paul, I will get in contact with him for sure.

The only problem I'm having at the moment is the previous owner did this project. And what's worse is a shop did most of the work and sourced most of the parts for him. I don't believe the motor is the stock GGSX 4g63 with a 14b added on. I'm pretty sure he swapped an entire motor from either a 1g eclipse GSX or a VR4. And he said "the tranny came from a turbo car" but couldn't tell me what car. Because of this I also don't know if I have a hacked GGSX harness or a vr4 / 1g DSM harness. I have a lot of investigating to do.

I posted a few pics in my into thread "not a vr4 but close enough". Luckily I'm not planning anything big and I bought this as an awesome 4 door daily. He claimed motor tranny and head were all freshly rebuilt before being put into the car.

 

[mitsuturbo]

A stock ggsx engine will hold up to some boost, but the ring lands on the 9:1 NA engines are pretty weak. Of course the fuel pump will be weak, injectors will be super small (240's i think) and the W5m31 tranny is weak as all hell. The rear end has different gearing. There's no 4ws. I'm not sure about ETACS, and things like 30sec window power cutoff delay, and speed sensitive wipers like the VR4 has. Clearly the engine wiring harness is going to be quite different. I'm not sure about the other wiring, or the presence of a power steering cooler (i deleted mine anyhow). I know the GGSX non-abs proportioning valve is somewhat sought after for those deleting ABS from a VR4.

I can't think of anything else that would be different.

I've owned a couple of GGSXs, but never considered putting a forced induction system into one of them. My intent was always to keep and DD them, but i ended up selling/trading them for reasons completely related to buying/modding/fixing/trading VR4s.

 

Ice converted two ggsx the.issues.were trans and the harness. The stock harness doesn't have a resistor box or knock sensor. Plus the maf is one less wire so make sure your hooked up correct. The other issue with a 1g trans is the fact the.ggsx has a specific front mount. The na engine is garbage and even with a new top end died at 14b wastegate psi. Other then that everything bolts up. Oh it also has a different cas with a pigtail plug.

 

[donkeylips]

I'm interested in the '90 differences. A '90 turbo DSM has a different throttle body, fuel rail, and a bunch of other small, annoying differences. Does the '90 GGSX have similar differences?
I know that the shifter/shifter cables are different. The blower motor is different.
I have a GGSX and two VR4s but haven't really dug into it to figure out the subtle differences. I started an excel spreadsheet with a large list of part number comparisons between gvr4 and ggsx parts. I did learn that every interior part is exactly the same except for the door panel (inserts), seats, steering wheel, and center console lid. When I have more time I'm going to run more part numbers in CAPS. I would like to know if the body wiring harnesses are exactly the same.

 

[cheekychimp]

Quoting EgonOlsen:
Im not sure the GTI Dynamic-4 comes in a RHD version.
But I know of 3-4 people here that have made the engine swap to a VR-4 turbo engine.

The Dynamic-4 have 4WS though as opposed to the GGSX, eccentially being the same car as the VR4 except for the engine being the N/A GTI version.



Well thanks for that! That's two reasons to stop looking then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

I thought a Dynamic-4 would save me the trouble of an AWS delete, but obviously not.

And whilst I am sure that I would get used to it, I really, really struggled with LHD 'manual' cars when I was in the States. I had no problems shifting but for some reason because I was shifting that way round I wanted 1st to be where 5th was. Because everything was reversed I just naturally wanted to push forward and away from the body to get into 1st. It felt really unnatural and uncomfortable. On quite a long drive with Toybreaker across some spectacular scenery in Colorado, I should have been straining at the leash to get more seat time and yet I felt strangely relieved to hand him back the keys at a gas stop. It was a bit like the feeling after your first driving lesson!

 

oh thats right you have to use the shifter cable brackets from the GGSX if your swap to a 1g trans. and yes they have the same little differences as a 90 dsm. so if you do change the harness you have to use a 90 ecu as well. sorry for leaving that out.