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Help me select Pistons and Rods

matt92vr4

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Hi guys, I just got the green light to get new pistons and rods for the Galant. This car is going to be a true DD with AC, PS, Cruise. I'll be running a 16G for many years to come on 93 pump gas and the occasional race gas for the track. "Maybe" one day in the far distant future I would go bigger but it would be at least 5 years out. So, this will never see more than 400AWHP.

I been searching around for pistons and rods. I think I have it narrowed down but I would like to hear your personal experiences with these options. Also, if you have additional options, please throw those in as well.

PISTONS:
Manley 8.5:1 - $495 ~ I like these due to the higher C/R
Wiseco 8.3:1 - $442 ~ These have a little better price. Do you know if they use locks for the wrist pins or press in? ExtremePSI doesn't say.
Ross 8.3:1 - $489 ~ Moe took me out to dinner one night after touring his facility in El Segundo. That was cool but if I can get a better piston elsewhere I'm all for it.

RODS:
Scat - $309 ~ Never heard of them. I like the price but the name reminds me of poop.
Manley - $354 ~ I like the idea of having rods and pistons from the same company. Plus if I go this route then I get the 8.5:1.
Eagle - $349 ~ It seems like I've heard a lot of good things about Eagle rods.

These prices are all pretty close so my main goal is to get the best parts for my application. Please provide your feedback. Also, these prices are all from ExtremePSI. Let me know if you have better deals! Thank you
 

4thStroke

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
There is absolutely no need to use forged internals with a 16g. A simple 1g rod and 2g piston setup will be more than enough. The motor will be quieter, last longer, and will cost a hell of a lot less.

Don't waste your money.
 

EMX5636

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,631
Location
Bucks County, PA
Scat and Eagle are identical H-beams. I believe the Manley H-beams are also the same. But as 4th said, you don't need anything over 1G rods in a motor that will see less than 400-450hp. If you want to, I ran Scat rods in a previous engine and installed a lot of Eagles in customer cars.
 

matt92vr4

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not too worried about the cost of forged. Coming from the 3S world, everything for the GVR4 seem very cheap. I agree that the forged will be more noisy however I don't understand why it wouldn't last as long?? I considered the 1g/2g option. I think I read somewhere that special machining is required for this? Where is the best place to purchase this setup? I don't have a local shop that I trust for machine work. New rings from Mitsu? Thanks!
 

mitsuturbo

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Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
3,544
Location
Near Seattle, Washington
Mahle pistons are good. Nicely coated. Short skirt. Close PTW clearance specs. You might want to look into them as well.
 

thecman02

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
917
Location
Kalamazoo,MI
I've been very happy with my wiseco 9.0:1 pistons and eagle rods. I've put on 30k miles with no problems or noises. Its very important to bring the spec sheet for the pistons to the machinist. If they follow the clearances on the paper you should have a quiet engine with no issues. With that being said I would have probably gone with a Wiseco HD if they were available when I built my engine.
 
Last edited:

mitsuturbo

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Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
3,544
Location
Near Seattle, Washington
Unless they do what my machine shop did, at first. They asked what sort of boost levels i'd be running and consulted the spec sheet. It said to run a large PTW clearance for "extreme or severe duty application".

The machine shops definition of severe duty, and Mahle's definition conflicted significantly.

See thread. Don't make the mistake of thinking the shop always knows best:

click

When in doubt, consult the manufacturer directly.
 

TomN

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
207
Location
North Port, Fl
If I was going to build a motor for a 16g I would at least be looking to get more out of the 16g than a factory motor could.
Compression wise I wouldn't get less than 9:1. Personally I would do eagle or scat rods and 10:1 pistons if you have tuning ability.
 

alansupra94

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
Quoting matt92vr4:
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not too worried about the cost of forged. Coming from the 3S world, everything for the GVR4 seem very cheap. I agree that the forged will be more noisy however I don't understand why it wouldn't last as long?? I considered the 1g/2g option. I think I read somewhere that special machining is required for this? Where is the best place to purchase this setup? I don't have a local shop that I trust for machine work. New rings from Mitsu? Thanks!



For the 1g/2g option, you just have to get the 2G pistons machined to accept the 1G rods. I forget exactly what the size is but there are tons of threads on it.

When people say it won't last as long, they are refering to the fact that forged parts tend to have a shorter lifespan than cast, in the sense that they tend to wear quicker although stronger (not sure if I said that correctly).

For you, I would run 1 1g/2g combo option. It is what I had on that very same S16G and it felt really nice especially in the low RPM range. Granted, I never let the S16G go above stock wastegate levels but it pulled awesome until the wastegate slammed shut /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

matt92vr4

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Thanks for all of the feedback. The 1G/2G is starting to sound good. I found these from DSM Graveyard

click

What do you think of these? I certainly like the price and convenience. How are the NPR pistons and rings? Am I better off going OEM for an extra $125? Thanks for all of your help!

 
Last edited:

iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
Staff member
Joined
Mar 5, 2001
Messages
10,964
Location
Michigan
I used the NPR 2g pistons and rings, and have used NPR rings in another stock piston rebuild. No problems with any of them to this stage. I have not pushed any ridiculous boost numbers (over 17) in any of the builds to provide reference.
 

mitsuturbo

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Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
3,544
Location
Near Seattle, Washington
Quoting alansupra94:


For the 1g/2g option, you just have to get the 2G pistons machined to accept the 1G rods. I forget exactly what the size is but there are tons of threads on it.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek4wtf.gif This is absolute misinformation at it's worst. YOU NEVER machine a 2g PISTON to fit a 1g rod. EVER. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Here...
rodspecs2.jpg
 
Last edited:

alansupra94

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
Whoops, I guess I got it backwards. My engine stuff came to be already machined when bought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have NPR pistons and NPR rings and they have been holding up fine so far.
 
Last edited:

DynastyLCD

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
761
Location
Harwinton, CT
+1 for NPR rings. im using these on stock pistons. they take 27 psi through the 3065 like a champ! good vacuum, no smoking, strong engine.

last two stock bore stock piston engines i've built, i found the ring gaps on the looser end of spec. they weren't out by any way, but close. both of which are seeing high boost without trouble, so i guess we're doing something right!
 

matt92vr4

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
Thanks for all the info guys. Looks like you saved me a bunch of $$ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

mmmm, Dynasty I like the 860 injectors, FP regulator, wide band, and I'm also looking for a GVR4 fuel sending unit in good shape, 1g eprom ecu.

Whats the story on the downpipe? Will it work well on my galant with a 16g and 2g o2 housing?
 

TomN

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Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
207
Location
North Port, Fl
What do you plan to use to tune the car with?
 

matt92vr4

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Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
676
Location
Venice, FL
I have ECMLink v3 sitting on my toolbox collecting dust.
 

TomN

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
207
Location
North Port, Fl
Excelent choice. Get the SD kit from them and a wideband.
 
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