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Fuel system setup Help!!

ExplicitCC

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Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
49
Location
Lake elsinore, CA
Whats up guys? #901 is coming along nicely but I'm stuck with the fuel system, and I don't know what route to take, First off trying to hit 450hp, 68hta, FP exhaust mani, JMF intake mani, evo3 o2, walbro 255, evo8 head job, fmic, evo3 radiator, also have 950 injector (mite go bigger if I go E85) so the questions are1- Do I need a fuel rail? if so what do you recommend? 2-What regulator is recommended for what my goals are? 3- What other mods or upgrades would you recommend? thanks for your help!!
 

89Patches

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Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
723
Location
Ontario Canada
You don't need an aftermarket fuel rail. Regulators? anything Aeromotive or FuelLab is fine, But as for that pump I would go bigger as I have seen too many 255's start to run out of fuel up top around 430WHP.

I you do plan on going E85 bigger injectors & fuel pump are a MUST!
 

GotInsulin

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Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
105
Location
Philly burbs
You definitely need to decide what fuel you'll be running as that dictates pump(s) size and injectors to meet your goals. Keep in mind if you're planning on doing pump and then going to e85 later, you can always go with a slightly bigger injector and scale it back via your management within reason. Also keep in mind that the materials of your fuel system, specifically inside the fuel filter, may need to changed when you change over.
 

prove_it

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Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Bah pooey on that stupid argument that E85 is incompatible with the fuel filter. Been using OEM filters for 5 yrs on E85, NOT one even one has failed in 30k miles.

Agreed that you need to determine if your going gas or ethanol. If going gas, I'd run the 950's to have room (lower IDCs) and on E85 with that turbo, you'll need at least 1200cc's.

As for your pump, I've burned up 3 walbros in a short time. I personally now dislike wallys due to this. I got a deatchworks 300 and it's a beast that is very quiet and will flow enough for 450whp on E85. Plus 3 year warranty. Drop it in just like the wally.

I like the fuel lab mini regulator. It's held fine for me for 3 years no issues. It's way smaller and easier to find a place to mount. I've been using 43psi the whole time too. Don't forget about running new fuel lines, as at that power on E85 the stock line will work, but it's a limiting factor.

No fuel rail needed, I've seen 800whp on a stock rail with E85. The rail isn't going to make a difference, but the added volume of a bigger one can never hurt, but not needed.
 

slugsgomoo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Messages
3,776
Location
Tacoma, WA
i would get fittings welded to the factory rail if possible. The factory rail is large enough for a -6 hose to fit inside it completely, it's the orifice in the factory adapters that is the real bottleneck, so I'd eliminate those and fix that problem. The factory rail is huge, other than the connectors, so you should be good.
 

ExplicitCC

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
49
Location
Lake elsinore, CA
Quoting prove_it:
Bah pooey on that stupid argument that E85 is incompatible with the fuel filter. Been using OEM filters for 5 yrs on E85, NOT one even one has failed in 30k miles.

Agreed that you need to determine if your going gas or ethanol. If going gas, I'd run the 950's to have room (lower IDCs) and on E85 with that turbo, you'll need at least 1200cc's.

As for your pump, I've burned up 3 walbros in a short time. I personally now dislike wallys due to this. I got a deatchworks 300 and it's a beast that is very quiet and will flow enough for 450whp on E85. Plus 3 year warranty. Drop it in just like the wally.

I like the fuel lab mini regulator. It's held fine for me for 3 years no issues. It's way smaller and easier to find a place to mount. I've been using 43psi the whole time too. Don't forget about running new fuel lines, as at that power on E85 the stock line will work, but it's a limiting factor.

No fuel rail needed, I've seen 800whp on a stock rail with E85. The rail isn't going to make a difference, but the added volume of a bigger one can never hurt, but not needed.



I see you have a lot of experience with E85, question, since I'm racing in Mexico where E85 doesn't exist, I heard something about using my methanol injection kit with E85, do you know anything about that? I have a snow performance one I had left over from a diesel build, mite be another option /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 

prove_it

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Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
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Sioux Falls, SD
Never messed with methanol injection with E85. The point of Meth is to cool the intake charge and add knock resistance. E85 alone is good for 106 octane and the majority of cars running it hit into the low 20 degrees for timing. You can buy barrels of E98 too, which I think bumps octane to around 120. I'm sure it's not a problem to run Meth, but I don't see it being much of a power adder as your already tuned to high octane. The cooler charge would help, but E85 does a good job too, as the alcohol burns cooler and the Fuel absorbs heat once it's sprayed. Not as cold as Meth, but there is a cooling effect.
 

Wookalar

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
458
Location
Arizona USSA
Quoting ExplicitCC:
Whats up guys? #901 is coming along nicely but I'm stuck with the fuel system, and I don't know what route to take, First off trying to hit 450hp, 68hta, FP exhaust mani, JMF intake mani, evo3 o2, walbro 255, evo8 head job, fmic, evo3 radiator, also have 950 injector (mite go bigger if I go E85) so the questions are1- Do I need a fuel rail? if so what do you recommend? 2-What regulator is recommended for what my goals are? 3- What other mods or upgrades would you recommend? thanks for your help!!



950 injectors will not get you to 450 awhp. You will need 1450's. I maxed out 1050's on e85 at 400 whp with a Paxton external pump.

edit for the mathematical equation: click

I think FIC finally released their 1650 injector that works with e85 and regular gas but do some searching or even call them and ask them about the 1650's. Last I spoke to someone at FIC they said the 1650's were a finicky injector that were not meant for daily driving and pump gas, and that they were still refining them and not sure when they would be finished. That was about 12 months ago.

The oem 1g rail is good for over 400 hp but as someone else said you should find fitting adapter or have some welded on.

As for fpr, go fuel lab, something to do with the construction is superior to other regulators (mount up).

You will need a better pump than a 255.

I might have missed it but what ecu are you running? If you don't have ecmtuning/link yet I would get that first, then do fuel system upgrades so you can fine tune the numbers.
 
Last edited:

diambo4life

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Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
315
Location
Edmond, Oklahoma
Even the stock fuel feed and FPR is fine. The restriction will be the banjo after your filter to the inlet of the rail.
 

slugsgomoo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Messages
3,776
Location
Tacoma, WA
Quoting Wookalar:
Quoting ExplicitCC:
Whats up guys? #901 is coming along nicely but I'm stuck with the fuel system, and I don't know what route to take, First off trying to hit 450hp, 68hta, FP exhaust mani, JMF intake mani, evo3 o2, walbro 255, evo8 head job, fmic, evo3 radiator, also have 950 injector (mite go bigger if I go E85) so the questions are1- Do I need a fuel rail? if so what do you recommend? 2-What regulator is recommended for what my goals are? 3- What other mods or upgrades would you recommend? thanks for your help!!



950 injectors will not get you to 450 awhp. You will need 1450's. I maxed out 1050's on e85 at 400 whp with a Paxton external pump.

edit for the mathematical equation: click

I think FIC finally released their 1650 injector that works with e85 and regular gas but do some searching or even call them and ask them about the 1650's. Last I spoke to someone at FIC they said the 1650's were a finicky injector that were not meant for daily driving and pump gas, and that they were still refining them and not sure when they would be finished. That was about 12 months ago.

The oem 1g rail is good for over 400 hp but as someone else said you should find fitting adapter or have some welded on.

As for fpr, go fuel lab, something to do with the construction is superior to other regulators (mount up).

You will need a better pump than a 255.

I might have missed it but what ecu are you running? If you don't have ecmtuning/link yet I would get that first, then do fuel system upgrades so you can fine tune the numbers.



until you get beyond the limits of what pump gas can do, the same injector will make more power on 92 than e85- It's not until your boost and timing climbs above the knock threshold of the fuel that it's an issue. People told Mike V that for months and he finally went and dynoed at more power on pump gas than e85... unless you have the injector to crank the boost, ethanol is pointless IMO, obviously wonderful if you do (and it's available near you).
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Quoting diambo4life:
Even the stock fuel feed and FPR is fine. The restriction will be the banjo after your filter to the inlet of the rail.



Ah, no, the pressure regulator is not fine. It overruns and can not physically provide a constant and stable fuel pressure. Stock feed line will max out at around 45lbs/min airflow and 12:1 fuel ratio on E85. Also the line is 20+years old.

Sure some have made lots of power on these parts, but it's not proper and leads to tuning issues. Makes for a hard to drive car too.
 

Wookalar

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
458
Location
Arizona USSA
Quoting slugsgomoo:
Quoting Wookalar:
Quoting ExplicitCC:
Whats up guys? #901 is coming along nicely but I'm stuck with the fuel system, and I don't know what route to take, First off trying to hit 450hp, 68hta, FP exhaust mani, JMF intake mani, evo3 o2, walbro 255, evo8 head job, fmic, evo3 radiator, also have 950 injector (mite go bigger if I go E85) so the questions are1- Do I need a fuel rail? if so what do you recommend? 2-What regulator is recommended for what my goals are? 3- What other mods or upgrades would you recommend? thanks for your help!!



950 injectors will not get you to 450 awhp. You will need 1450's. I maxed out 1050's on e85 at 400 whp with a Paxton external pump.

edit for the mathematical equation: click

I think FIC finally released their 1650 injector that works with e85 and regular gas but do some searching or even call them and ask them about the 1650's. Last I spoke to someone at FIC they said the 1650's were a finicky injector that were not meant for daily driving and pump gas, and that they were still refining them and not sure when they would be finished. That was about 12 months ago.

The oem 1g rail is good for over 400 hp but as someone else said you should find fitting adapter or have some welded on.

As for fpr, go fuel lab, something to do with the construction is superior to other regulators (mount up).

You will need a better pump than a 255.

I might have missed it but what ecu are you running? If you don't have ecmtuning/link yet I would get that first, then do fuel system upgrades so you can fine tune the numbers.



until you get beyond the limits of what pump gas can do, the same injector will make more power on 92 than e85- It's not until your boost and timing climbs above the knock threshold of the fuel that it's an issue. People told Mike V that for months and he finally went and dynoed at more power on pump gas than e85... unless you have the injector to crank the boost, ethanol is pointless IMO, obviously wonderful if you do (and it's available near you).



I understand that E85 requires 30% more fuel than pump gas. OP mentioned he might use e85 so that's why I mentioned the bigger injectors.

I wish I would have never wasted my money and time on 1050's years ago and would have just got 1450's because either way then you can run some good psi with pump gas and with e85. The 1050's were the limiting factor in my fuel set up.

The pump gas vs e85 has ben discussed millions of times before. Personally I think anyone running 20+ psi on pump gas is playing with fire but it's their car so. One bad tank could end a motor....unless the user is also running methanol as a safeguard that would be the only exception.

The e85 requires more fuel but is safer as someone above mentioned it is similar to running 106 octane.

Whatever works for you. I used to live within 5-12 miles of three e85 stations so it was convenient for me. Oh and e85 smells much better than 91-93 octane. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Last edited:

prove_it

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Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
It's not similar to 106 octane. It IS 106 octane alcohol.

And it is a great smell. Driving the DD now on pump and god I miss the wave of corn as you pull up to a light. Always reminds me of popcorn for an odd reason.
 
Last edited:

diambo4life

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
315
Location
Edmond, Oklahoma
It works just fine. 1G/GVR4 lines are plenty. Many of us have done it for years. My old Talon which went almost 140mph in full street trim and was my daily for years had the stock fuel return, stock fuel feed until the fuel filter, stock fuel filter, stock rail and stock FPR. All done on two inline pumps. That was on E85. Same car made 528whp on completely bone stock fuel lines on E85. I kinda know what I'm talking about....from personal experience. I simply don't agree with your opinion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
Last edited:

prove_it

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Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Yea, there are people doing it. I like to recommend the right way to do things. We don't skip and hack in this community.

Glad to know you know what your talking about, so do I.
 

ExplicitCC

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Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
49
Location
Lake elsinore, CA
No E85 stations around me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif was really looking forward to it, but owell I'll keep my 950 and walbro 255
 

Jesus_Negros

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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
2,344
Location
USA
Pretty sure there's two near you. One in Murrieta for sure and another in Perris.
 

Wookalar

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Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
458
Location
Arizona USSA
Quoting prove_it:
Yea, there are people doing it. I like to recommend the right way to do things. We don't skip and hack in this community.

Glad to know you know what your talking about, so do I.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

Diambo has been in the Mitsu community for at least ten years. Diambo, I remember seeing your posts on the supra board back BITD, you had your black Talon in your sig and always some crazy low et's and mph on street tires. Something like 10.8. Correct me if I'm wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Last edited:

Wookalar

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Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
458
Location
Arizona USSA
Quoting ExplicitCC:
No E85 stations around me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif was really looking forward to it, but owell I'll keep my 950 and walbro 255



Werd, I would get ecmtuning/link before bigger fuel mods cause fine tuning the numbers is how you will squeeze the most out of your current set up. Then once you get bored with that power you can upgrade your fuel and you will already have the ecm to take advantage of new fuel mods. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

ghostinthevr4

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Jun 11, 2008
Messages
587
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Fresno, Califonia
Quoting Turbro_Negro:
Pretty sure there's two near you. One in Murrieta for sure and another in Perris.



Turbo is right and there's two in Murrieta I filled up at one the other night, if anybody wants to buy my 1450's PM me.
 
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