Cold air intakes/boxes post your pics!

[manikbastrd]

So recently, I switched over to a 2g MAS and am using a Dejon 2g intake tube. (Wow, what a difference!!!) Having also switched to an FP manifold on the exhaust and not shelling out 100 bucks on the manifold blanket (still under consideration), I am sure that my under-hood temps are killing my efficiency. As such, I am planning to build myself a cold air box to fit where the battery used to be. I have seen a few pics and have read some how-to's for standard DSMs, but haven't found one for our cars. Since everyone runs different intakes, I figured I would ask here for any advice, lessons learned and how-to's.

As always, post up some pics of what you did! I love seeing what other people have done...it gets the brain juices flowing!

I am considering a few things, such as material choices (Sheet metal vs Fiberglass), how to contour match the hood, how large/how many holes to cut for air flow, and possibly including some baffling to prevent water from ruining my day. I am also not sure if I want to try and make it out of one piece with creases, or welding the edges (which will be a fantastic test of my welding ability)/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Thanks in advance!!!
-Manik

 

[tektic]

click

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Not to thread jack, but feel like this is one of many posts in the last week or so that have mentioned how under hood temps would greatly suffer from running a FP manifold (or fill in the blank with X exhaust manifold) without a heat shield. In theory, I could see how this would be detrimental, but in practice, I’m skeptical about the real world measurable effects. It seems to me that at speed, the engine bay would see enough airflow to negate the effects? I’m talking about street cars here, not race machines designed to squeeze every last HP out of a setup. I know there are a million factors which may improve or hinder performance in regard to under hood temps and how they actually equate to HP loss or gain. But, it seems to me that in regard to an unshielded exhaust manifold, the effects would be negligible in most cases. I see a bunch of guys on T00ners wrapping their intake manifolds and such in that golden Mylar looking sh*t, alleging it improved performance by a ridiculous amount without any real numbers to back up their claims. This lack of data makes me wonder; do heat shielded exhaust manifolds and Mylar wrapped intake bits really yield enough of an improvment to make them worthwhile in street car? Although I’m sure precautions like this do help in some cases, I’m wondering if anyone has some REAL data or testing where they manipulated some of these factors and logged a measurable difference in IAT, or some other related parameter? I realize that the “measureable effects” extend past under hood temps alone, and other things such as turbine efficiency could stand to benefit from a insulated manifold. To be clear, I’m not talking about these. I’m talking strictly about under hood temperature, and the real world effect it has on performance (mainly IATs).

 

[Turbo99]

Another thing to consider is everything else in the intake system. Go ahead and protect everything, isolate your air filter so that it's literally outside the engine bay. If your intercooler is still heatsoaking 50 degrees over a 3rd gear pull, good luck seeing it make a considerable difference. There's no doubt that the colder the intake charge the better. I would imagine any effort to keep heat away from the intake system would be beneficial. To what extent? That depends on a lot of variables.

 

[EHmotorsports]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting GSTwithPSI:</font><hr />
Not to thread jack, but feel like this is one of many posts in the last week or so that have mentioned how under hood temps would greatly suffer from running a FP manifold (or fill in the blank with X exhaust manifold) without a heat shield. In theory, I could see how this would be detrimental, but in practice, I’m skeptical about the real world measurable effects. It seems to me that at speed, the engine bay would see enough airflow to negate the effects? I’m talking about street cars here, not race machines designed to squeeze every last HP out of a setup. I know there are a million factors which may improve or hinder performance in regard to under hood temps and how they actually equate to HP loss or gain. But, it seems to me that in regard to an unshielded exhaust manifold, the effects would be negligible in most cases. I see a bunch of guys on T00ners wrapping their intake manifolds and such in that golden Mylar looking sh*t, alleging it improved performance by a ridiculous amount without any real numbers to back up their claims. This lack of data makes me wonder; do heat shielded exhaust manifolds and Mylar wrapped intake bits really yield enough of an improvment to make them worthwhile in street car? Although I’m sure precautions like this do help in some cases, I’m wondering if anyone has some REAL data or testing where they manipulated some of these factors and logged a measurable difference in IAT, or some other related parameter? I realize that the “measureable effects” extend past under hood temps alone, and other things such as turbine efficiency could stand to benefit from a insulated manifold. To be clear, I’m not talking about these. I’m talking strictly about under hood temperature, and the real world effect it has on performance (mainly IATs).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

first hand experience with my car. I ran a 2g manifold with no heat shield for about a year. I decided to install one last summer to see if my cooling system would be improved. I was around 205-210 with no shield and with heat shield I was at 193-198. also my Iat was 12 deg cooler. so yes it makes a difference. It may not make MORE power but it will be a more consistent power no matter the outside temp.

 

[manikbastrd]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting GSTwithPSI:</font><hr />
Not to thread jack, but feel like this is one of many posts in the last week or so that have mentioned how under hood temps would greatly suffer from running a FP manifold (or fill in the blank with X exhaust manifold) without a heat shield. In theory, I could see how this would be detrimental, but in practice, I’m skeptical about the real world measurable effects. It seems to me that at speed, the engine bay would see enough airflow to negate the effects? I’m talking about street cars here, not race machines designed to squeeze every last HP out of a setup. I know there are a million factors which may improve or hinder performance in regard to under hood temps and how they actually equate to HP loss or gain. But, it seems to me that in regard to an unshielded exhaust manifold, the effects would be negligible in most cases. I see a bunch of guys on T00ners wrapping their intake manifolds and such in that golden Mylar looking sh*t, alleging it improved performance by a ridiculous amount without any real numbers to back up their claims. This lack of data makes me wonder; do heat shielded exhaust manifolds and Mylar wrapped intake bits really yield enough of an improvment to make them worthwhile in street car? Although I’m sure precautions like this do help in some cases, I’m wondering if anyone has some REAL data or testing where they manipulated some of these factors and logged a measurable difference in IAT, or some other related parameter? I realize that the “measureable effects” extend past under hood temps alone, and other things such as turbine efficiency could stand to benefit from a insulated manifold. To be clear, I’m not talking about these. I’m talking strictly about under hood temperature, and the real world effect it has on performance (mainly IATs).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I can't say how much difference it has made or will make, but those are some valid points. I can say for sure that, borrowing from my engineering background, the cooler the charge is when it goes in, the better it will be when it comes out of the turbo. Furthermore, I definitely can say that my upper charge pipe is noticeably warmer with no heat shield than it was with a heat shield. Like I said before, I still am on the fence about the manifold blanket but the more I think about it the more I am convinced that is a good idea...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting tektic:</font><hr />
click

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Thanks for the link! That was exactly what I couldn't find!

Cheers!

 

[prove_it]

Heat soak is a whole other topic. That's where I have issues. In ambient air temps over 80* the FP manifold will tax the crap out of my cooling system in stop and go traffic. Hit 30 mph and cooling temps drop 30* instantly. There is a lot of radiant heat, but the claims are a loss of 30whp. I can see 5, maybe 10whp, but let's see. I'm making 325whp with a S16G at 22lbs. Now if I'm losing 30whp then I should be getting close to 360whp at 39lbs/min airflow? Doubt it.

Yea, getting the coldest air to the turbo will help the most. Heat wrapping the turbo inlet is a good idea. Isolating the filter is great, but keep the piping short to prevent a loss of power from excessive restriction. Wrapping the hot pipes, can reduce radiant heat. The cold pipes, ehh, maybe. I still get IATs under 125* under a heavy 4th gear pull. I have steel piping that runs right over the manifold too. Don't have a big IC either. I only wrapped the pipe over the manifold for about 5 inches to reduce DP heat and manifold heat as needed. I honestly don't think that even helped.

I think the mylar wrap and heat spacers are nothing but a new way for companies to make money, and for certain types to feel like the are "modding" their car. It's like a Honda fad. In stop and go traffic, it could help. How much? Probably very little. In a drag car, oh god no. The air velocity is too high for heat to transfer from the piping to the air. Isolating the manifold won't do crap at that point.

Those guys won't post numbers cause they have no loggers, or any data acquisition tools. So doubt you'll see any proof soon.

If you trying to squeeze more power and lower intake temps, use E85 or meth. Simpler, better, and less Honda-ish BS. Hell maybe I'm wrong and wrapping my set-up will push me to 370whp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[transparentdsm]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting GSTwithPSI:</font><hr />
Not to thread jack, but feel like this is one of many posts in the last week or so that have mentioned how under hood temps would greatly suffer from running a FP manifold (or fill in the blank with X exhaust manifold) without a heat shield. In theory, I could see how this would be detrimental, but in practice, I’m skeptical about the real world measurable effects. It seems to me that at speed, the engine bay would see enough airflow to negate the effects? I’m talking about street cars here, not race machines designed to squeeze every last HP out of a setup. I know there are a million factors which may improve or hinder performance in regard to under hood temps and how they actually equate to HP loss or gain. But, it seems to me that in regard to an unshielded exhaust manifold, the effects would be negligible in most cases. I see a bunch of guys on T00ners wrapping their intake manifolds and such in that golden Mylar looking sh*t, alleging it improved performance by a ridiculous amount without any real numbers to back up their claims. This lack of data makes me wonder; do heat shielded exhaust manifolds and Mylar wrapped intake bits really yield enough of an improvment to make them worthwhile in street car? Although I’m sure precautions like this do help in some cases, I’m wondering if anyone has some REAL data or testing where they manipulated some of these factors and logged a measurable difference in IAT, or some other related parameter? I realize that the “measureable effects” extend past under hood temps alone, and other things such as turbine efficiency could stand to benefit from a insulated manifold. To be clear, I’m not talking about these. I’m talking strictly about under hood temperature, and the real world effect it has on performance (mainly IATs).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


I have a FP manifold, i bought a manifold blanket for mine. i did this for 1 reason and it helped me in 2 way. i bought it because the manifold and the intercooler piping are very close together in my car, with a stock 1G heat shield after i drove for more then 5 or so hours the heat would soften up the coupler and it would slide off at 19 psi. it was so hot after a short 15 minute drive you could not touch the hot side piping. with the blanket after i let it warm up and cool down 2 times for an hour each time and then went on a short 20 minute drive about 5 or 7 miles i was not only able to touch the hot side piping, but i was able to touch the blanket. now i don't mean lay my hand on there and hang out, but you can touch it and not get burned. also i could feel the difference in under hood temps. i do not know what kind of degree difference, but i know that it was defiantly much warmer without the blanket. I do not know the the long time difference yet, but if it's helping during a short distance im sure it will help during the long drives as well. i have not put my computer on the car yet, but my before under hood AITs at idle were 99-101. i will update with numbers once i get my new fluid and go for a drive to reno.

i did not do this for performance, all i did this for was to stop my coupler from popping off. i did some research and i also met a guy who had one on his 1g and it def keeps it cool enough to do what i need it for.

 

[EHmotorsports]

Quoting prove_it:
Heat soak is a whole other topic. That's where I have issues. In ambient air temps over 80* the FP manifold will tax the crap out of my cooling system in stop and go traffic. Hit 30 mph and cooling temps drop 30* instantly. There is a lot of radiant heat, but the claims are a loss of 30whp. I can see 5, maybe 10whp, but let's see. I'm making 325whp with a S16G at 22lbs. Now if I'm losing 30whp then I should be getting close to 360whp at 39lbs/min airflow? Doubt it.

Yea, getting the coldest air to the turbo will help the most. Heat wrapping the turbo inlet is a good idea. Isolating the filter is great, but keep the piping short to prevent a loss of power from excessive restriction. Wrapping the hot pipes, can reduce radiant heat. The cold pipes, ehh, maybe. I still get IATs under 125* under a heavy 4th gear pull. I have steel piping that runs right over the manifold too. Don't have a big IC either. I only wrapped the pipe over the manifold for about 5 inches to reduce DP heat and manifold heat as needed. I honestly don't think that even helped.

I think the mylar wrap and heat spacers are nothing but a new way for companies to make money, and for certain types to feel like the are "modding" their car. It's like a Honda fad. In stop and go traffic, it could help. How much? Probably very little. In a drag car, oh god no. The air velocity is too high for heat to transfer from the piping to the air. Isolating the manifold won't do crap at that point.

Those guys won't post numbers cause they have no loggers, or any data acquisition tools. So doubt you'll see any proof soon.

If you trying to squeeze more power and lower intake temps, use E85 or meth. Simpler, better, and less Honda-ish BS. Hell maybe I'm wrong and wrapping my set-up will push me to 370whp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



I am not entirely sure "they" meant 30 peak HP. I am sure with a quicker spool up that there could reasonably be an increase in hp at the rpm range that was effected by the slower spool previously.

 

[manikbastrd]

Quoting prove_it:
Heat soak is a whole other topic. That's where I have issues. In ambient air temps over 80* the FP manifold will tax the crap out of my cooling system in stop and go traffic. Hit 30 mph and cooling temps drop 30* instantly. There is a lot of radiant heat, but the claims are a loss of 30whp. I can see 5, maybe 10whp, but let's see. I'm making 325whp with a S16G at 22lbs. Now if I'm losing 30whp then I should be getting close to 360whp at 39lbs/min airflow? Doubt it.

Yea, getting the coldest air to the turbo will help the most. Heat wrapping the turbo inlet is a good idea. Isolating the filter is great, but keep the piping short to prevent a loss of power from excessive restriction. Wrapping the hot pipes, can reduce radiant heat. The cold pipes, ehh, maybe. I still get IATs under 125* under a heavy 4th gear pull. I have steel piping that runs right over the manifold too. Don't have a big IC either. I only wrapped the pipe over the manifold for about 5 inches to reduce DP heat and manifold heat as needed. I honestly don't think that even helped.

I think the mylar wrap and heat spacers are nothing but a new way for companies to make money, and for certain types to feel like the are "modding" their car. It's like a Honda fad. In stop and go traffic, it could help. How much? Probably very little. In a drag car, oh god no. The air velocity is too high for heat to transfer from the piping to the air. Isolating the manifold won't do crap at that point.

Those guys won't post numbers cause they have no loggers, or any data acquisition tools. So doubt you'll see any proof soon.

If you trying to squeeze more power and lower intake temps, use E85 or meth. Simpler, better, and less Honda-ish BS. Hell maybe I'm wrong and wrapping my set-up will push me to 370whp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



I completely agree that meth is the easiest and IMHO safest way to reliably and continuously reduce IATs. I ran meth on my 724 and definitely noticed a difference in IATs, as well as power of course.

As far as heat soak in slow traffic, it is painfully obvious that I am getting a lot of heat soak, a lot of which I am sure is from the charge itself, but also from the engine/manifold as well. I have noticed a significant difference in the amount of knock I get when logging first gear pulls when I give the I/C a chance to cool down before doing a pull. Obviously some of this is just regular heat soak that any turbo car will get but I am also sure that minimizing heat sources in the engine bay will help this issue out.

I am surprised that with all this talk about the manifold blanket, no one has mentioned any added benefits besides power. I am sure that keeping the engine temps down at idle and in traffic would also benefit all of the electronics and other accessory systems as well as seals. Of course these things are designed to specifications which include extreme heat, but keeping heat down does nothing but help prevent wear and tear.

Another thing that makes me curious is all the talk about heat wrapping things. I know that in motorcycle applications heat wrap can be extremely beneficial but also can be very costly as they tend to trap moisture and promote corrosion on uncoated piping. Granted, the engine temps do cause that moisture to evaporate very rapidly, however it is well known that moisture and heat together do a very good job of promoting oxidation, even in high strength alloys like inconel. This is why I personally tend to stay away from any heat wrapping and also makes me cautious about adding the manifold blanket. Fortunately, on a properly designed component, the designers typically will account for an oxidation layer and make the metal thick enough to allow for that build up. Once that oxidation layer has built up to a certain point the oxidation is much more difficult to accumulate. Like I said, this is of more significant concern on motorcycles where more of the pipes are exposed, more of the time, and the pipes tend to be much thinner.

 

[prove_it]

All very true. I heat wrapped the piping on my R6 for one reason: My legs got hot as hell. LOL. That's where it helped a lot. There was a lot less heat from the engine area. I know a bunch of Harley guys that do the same thing, mostly to keep themselves from getting burned all the time.

As for a quicker spool from wrapping things, yea maybe a couple hundred RPM gain in spool. Your not going to increase the spool by 500rpm, it will be less, so a fraction of a second of spool will not make the car faster, well not noticeable. If you going to the lengths like this to gain a 1 mph at the trap or gain 200rpm spool, then your chasing unicorns. Just take dry ice and chill the IC before making a run.

Like I said, I think of all this excessive wrapping like Honda mods. Just screwing around just to do something and then think wow it's so much faster now just to satisfy the fact you just spent hundreds of dollars on wrap only to gain 5whp.

 

[EHmotorsports]

Not everyone drag races so when people do track days they really do need all the "Honda" heat wraps and coatings. It's not just for power it's also for reliability.

 

[transparentdsm]

ok i lied i did mine because i thought it looked cool!

 

[prove_it]

We already knew that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm not saying that wrapping doesn't help or is a waste of time. It does have it's place and works great. I'm referring to the ones that start wrapping everything and going all out. The whole mylar wrap is a got to be a joke. I wonder if they are heat wrapping the fuel rail too.

Maybe I'm too bitter since I'm too spoiled on E85. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

 

[manikbastrd]

HAHAHAHA some of the things people will do to their cars is ridiculous. I will say that even though you may only gain a few HP or few hundred RPM on your spool, if you find enough of those things it adds up. It may end up being a waste of time and money when you look at converting to E85 or running meth or spending the money on a bigger snail, but it does add up. DON'T GET ME WRONG!!! I think that there are a lot of stupid things people do to their cars for a lot of the wrong reasons IMHO, but some of them can add up to significant gains.

 

[diambo4life]

In the background...


CAIs work and kick ass.

This is the one I had done for my old Talon.


If you want to maximize your setup...every little thing helps. I know the CAI in my GVR4 is so good I sometimes see AITs (that is after the FMIC) less than 10degF above ambient tempts @ 30psi+ boost.

 

[Wookalar]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting GSTwithPSI:</font><hr />
Not to thread jack, but feel like this is one of many posts in the last week or so that have mentioned how under hood temps would greatly suffer from running a FP manifold (or fill in the blank with X exhaust manifold) without a heat shield. In theory, I could see how this would be detrimental, but in practice, I’m skeptical about the real world measurable effects. It seems to me that at speed, the engine bay would see enough airflow to negate the effects? I’m talking about street cars here, not race machines designed to squeeze every last HP out of a setup. I know there are a million factors which may improve or hinder performance in regard to under hood temps and how they actually equate to HP loss or gain. But, it seems to me that in regard to an unshielded exhaust manifold, the effects would be negligible in most cases. I see a bunch of guys on T00ners wrapping their intake manifolds and such in that golden Mylar looking sh*t, alleging it improved performance by a ridiculous amount without any real numbers to back up their claims. This lack of data makes me wonder; do heat shielded exhaust manifolds and Mylar wrapped intake bits really yield enough of an improvment to make them worthwhile in street car? Although I’m sure precautions like this do help in some cases, I’m wondering if anyone has some REAL data or testing where they manipulated some of these factors and logged a measurable difference in IAT, or some other related parameter? I realize that the “measureable effects” extend past under hood temps alone, and other things such as turbine efficiency could stand to benefit from a insulated manifold. To be clear, I’m not talking about these. I’m talking strictly about under hood temperature, and the real world effect it has on performance (mainly IATs).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The results of not having a heat shield on an exhaust manifold and dp are not negligible in the slightest form. Why do you think so many people kill their alternator after they ditch the stock exhaust with the shields and then install a giant exhaust system with no shields. How hot do turbos get under boost? 650f? 700f? And when it's 110 out like in the southwest like phoenix which sees 110*+ temps in june through august. Heat is an engines biggest enemy.

Op would be wise to use some sort of ex mani shield or wrap. A air intake box is nice but not if your ex mani is cooking the sheet metal and intake pipe.

The gold foil ellegedly reflects 78% radiant heat according to the manufacture and dealers. I use it on the under side of my hood to try and preserve the resin, to prolong the negative affect of heat from the exhaust mani (and wastegate). Many racers use it however I think wrapping the entire intake mani is excessive. No I have not done tests on how much heat it reflects.

A "cold air" intake box would be beneficial the most if other heat sources are addressed at the same time. The best cold air intake box for a gvr4 Ive seen is I think Terry Postens. Here: click

With a nice box the next best solution for cold air is to put a vent in the hood like the jdm spec evo iii or iv style where the vent is in the corner near the headlight.

As for heat build up in daily drive use, heat would actually be worse I imgaine than in a race car. Daily driving in most cities people are sitting in rush hour traffic going no where with no air to move through the engine bay for twenty minutes, or longer. Not to mention, most people don't have vented hoods so all that heat is being trapped. Living in the hottest part of the country, I have tried many tricks in the book for heat control.

Also think about this, heat shields make enough difference in blocking (or absorbing) heat that they come on cars from toyota/lexus, mb, bmw, porsche, etc etc. They use heat shields because they work.

 

[coyotes]

My previous GVR4, 981/2000 had an ARC Evo III intake as installed by the previous owner.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting Wookalar:

The results of not having a heat shield on an exhaust manifold and dp are not negligible in the slightest form. Why do you think so many people kill their alternator after they ditch the stock exhaust with the shields and then install a giant exhaust system with no shields. How hot do turbos get under boost? 650f? 700f? And when it's 110 out like in the southwest like phoenix which sees 110*+ temps in june through august. Heat is an engines biggest enemy.

Op would be wise to use some sort of ex mani shield or wrap. A air intake box is nice but not if your ex mani is cooking the sheet metal and intake pipe.

The gold foil ellegedly reflects 78% radiant heat according to the manufacture and dealers. I use it on the under side of my hood to try and preserve the resin, to prolong the negative affect of heat from the exhaust mani (and wastegate). Many racers use it however I think wrapping the entire intake mani is excessive. No I have not done tests on how much heat it reflects.

A "cold air" intake box would be beneficial the most if other heat sources are addressed at the same time. The best cold air intake box for a gvr4 Ive seen is I think Terry Postens. Here: click

With a nice box the next best solution for cold air is to put a vent in the hood like the jdm spec evo iii or iv style where the vent is in the corner near the headlight.

As for heat build up in daily drive use, heat would actually be worse I imgaine than in a race car. Daily driving in most cities people are sitting in rush hour traffic going no where with no air to move through the engine bay for twenty minutes, or longer. Not to mention, most people don't have vented hoods so all that heat is being trapped. Living in the hottest part of the country, I have tried many tricks in the book for heat control.

Also think about this, heat shields make enough difference in blocking (or absorbing) heat that they come on cars from toyota/lexus, mb, bmw, porsche, etc etc. They use heat shields because they work.



It's clear heat shields do yield some benefits. I was never arguing this fact. I simply wanted some input from others who may have had some real world data on the matter. Some people spend all this time and money heat proofing all their sh*t only to get little, if any, gain. Case and point, when you have to shell out $150 for a heat shield that fits you FP race manifold, you may want to consider what your actually getting for your money.

No doubt daily driving is hard on a car, but I'd say racing of almost any sort is much more taxing. Unless you're street racing, in which case you have bigger issues than heat to worry about.

 

[Wookalar]

Im just saying that when youre moving there is airflow, when youre stopped in traffic and crawling youre relying on your fans for heat dissipation. With no vented hood and no heat shields or wrap, or whatever else items made to insulate things from heat, or reflect heat, etc.... Without any of those things your radiator is working over time to keep your engine cool in an area where the only way hot air can escape is from under neith the car (typical US spec cars without vented hoods).

Sorry op for going slightly ot.