Building a parts list for my motor build...

[BENE38A]

yea i read somewhere even on a mild build a girdle will add longevity to your main bearings, some people will run them regardless of power levels.

 

[Vader]

I have a good 6bolt bottom end with a brand new gates blue belt, water pump, and tensioner if your still looking, shoot me a pm if interested. Located in Portland OR.

 

[tektic]

Its a fraction of the size but it is a free spinning shaft. Its not connected to transmission or a valve train. Its also blue Kevlar and bigger than a water pump belt. Keep it or don't. It won't bother me none. I just wish I kept mine. That's all I'm saying about it. A 700hp drag car is different than a daily driver. I never wanted a track car. Well maybe a little.

 

[Wookalar]

Quoting manikbastrd:
The build is for a replacement bottom end for my car. I have a local machine shop who will do all the machine work, and do ring gaps. He is actually a buddy of mine so he will probably oversee me assembling the block itself (not my first but I am not super confident). Build is for a bottom end that will handle up to 700HP. I am only really shooting for 500-600 AWHP (gotta be able to beat my buddies evoX with 540AWHP), but want to have it good to go, and not have to worry about anything (I have not decided on a turbo yet, but I do have a head built). I thought about going stroker or destroker but can't come up with a great reason to do either. List is as follows, please chime in if you see something bad or that I should reconsider...

Stuff I need stilledited)
Good core for bottom end w/Crank
Mahle Powerpak 9.0:1
Carillo Rods
ARP Main studs
Clevite 77 main and rod bearings
New Mitsu oil pump case and gears
New mitsu water pump
Balance shaft delete kit
Fluidampr harmonic balancer
Haven't decided on HG yet...Thinking Mitsu MLS or Cometic

Things I have:
ARP Head studs
New Mitsu timing components
Stock Timing belt
7bolt head bored for 6 bolt studs
-1mm overbored valves
-ported all the way around
-HKS 272/272
-New Topline revised lifters
-Manley Springs and retainers
JMF intake manifold
Stock 1g TB
FP exhaust manifold
Turbo and o2 housing TBD

Thanks in advance! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif
-Manik



You will need some arp bolts to go w that fluidampr balancer since it is thicker than the oem balancer. The stock bolts arent long enough and dont get enough threads in there. A few guys on tuners experienced the bolts shearing off.

If I remember I will post the size and arp part #.

 

[alansupra94]

If you want to rev high, buy my clutch haha. Triple plate carbonetic will shift any transmission until it gives out. I recommend getting the sychros modified to prevent mushrooming. Also with a Kiggly girdle and ARP main studs, make sure you check the align on the mains. I also recommend a Kiggly HLA.

 

[mitsuturbo]

Kiggly makes Hydraulic Lash Adjusters? Since when?

 

[BENE38A]

click
they are not lash adjusters it regulates oil to the lash adjusters

 

[ghostinthevr4]

Quoting tektic:
Its a fraction of the size but it is a free spinning shaft. Its not connected to transmission or a valve train. Its also blue Kevlar and bigger than a water pump belt. Keep it or don't. It won't bother me none. I just wish I kept mine. That's all I'm saying about it. A 700hp drag car is different than a daily driver. I never wanted a track car. Well maybe a little.



Your right it is free spinning but I'm biased towards balance shaft once you loose a motor to one you don't want nothing to do with them. This was a long time ago when I didn't do all work on my car since then I do it all except for engine building and fabrication.

The Kiggly HLA pressure adjuster is a great item give JNZ a call and purchase the zero tick HLA to go along with it, perfect combo and works great on my car.

 

[BENE38A]

Your still risking a bearing failure, I know here it's hard to find a block without trashed balance shaft bearing journals, it's still spinning twice the speed as everything else. I think the biggest thing was people using stub shafts without an oil groove and it trashing oil pumps I'm using the oem stub shaft

 

[alansupra94]

Quoting ghostinthevr4:
Quoting tektic:
Its a fraction of the size but it is a free spinning shaft. Its not connected to transmission or a valve train. Its also blue Kevlar and bigger than a water pump belt. Keep it or don't. It won't bother me none. I just wish I kept mine. That's all I'm saying about it. A 700hp drag car is different than a daily driver. I never wanted a track car. Well maybe a little.



Your right it is free spinning but I'm biased towards balance shaft once you loose a motor to one you don't want nothing to do with them. This was a long time ago when I didn't do all work on my car since then I do it all except for engine building and fabrication.

The Kiggly HLA pressure adjuster is a great item give JNZ a call and purchase the zero tick HLA to go along with it, perfect combo and works great on my car.



With the Kiggly HLA pressure adjuster, you won't need zero tick HLAs. I remember have a conversation with a few people (including Bogus) about HLAs and remember people staying stock 1G HLA are better for high RPM engines and are actually better than the 3G revised (when properly bleed and oiled).

 

[slugsgomoo]

Run the felpro MLS, and delete FIAV. Frankly I hate the 1g TB (two gaskets = fail), and like the NT or aftermarket (lots of the dsmlink guys have gone very fast on the ~100 dollar ebay billet unit).

362Ryan is right, a street car with more displacement will be more fun. My car is an aluminum rod 2.0 and it's rev happy, but it's laggy and a 2.2/2.2/2.4 would be more entertaining in a street context, though 2.2 requires a non-oe crank and a lot more $$.

I can't think of a single upside to losing balance shafts. Lower oil pressure is not a negative, idle pressure on a 4g is plenty high without balance shafts, and most people have issues with far too much pressure at redline, especially if you're spinning past 7500. Obviously using the right OE parts for the delete and installing the bearings correctly is key.

I can spin my motor to 10k. There is no part of a useless weight that's designed to make my ass feel less vibration from 3k-4.5k spinning 20k RPM that's a good idea IMO. Unlike a crank damper which is a stupid thing to delete (say for an unorthodox underdrive), balance shafts don't help the motor operate in any way, shape or form.

 

[prove_it]

Balance shafts help offset vibrations in the engine that cause premature bearing wear. It comes down to preference, there's a lot of theories and stories for and against the use of balance shafts. I personally thinks it's up to the builder. There is no right answer.

 

[slugsgomoo]

Can you cite a source for that? Mitsubishi docs I've read cite passenger comfort as the reason for the balance shafts. If the motor needed them to be reliable and prevent premature bearing wear, there wouldn't be 4g motors that came from the factory without balance shafts...

That said, factory the damn things spin 15,000 RPM, in a built race motor you could be looking at 20-22k. I doubt that bodes well.

 

[prove_it]

It's just something BogusSvo had mentioned in a post somewhere. He was discussing the internal harmonics of the engine. Read up on tuners too about this. I don't have any links. Like I said, supposedly it reduces bearing wear to keep them, but there is really no proof or evidence that keeping them helps. I know you can spin out bearings, seen that first hand. There is a lot of info on balance shafts out there. Doesn't seem like there is a general rule though. I've gone 30k without them at over 300whp with no issues. I think it's just personal preference whether to ditch them or keep em. I've heard arguments on both sides, but after all these years, no one can say for sure.

IIRC the engines without balance shafts are the SOHC, so there are less spinning parts, plus they make way less power so it's kinda hard to compare.

 

[manikbastrd]

Well, If it is up to the builder, and it is not purely for passenger comfort, then I most likely will include them. Jack's Transmissions swears by them, and they have a very compelling argument. Jack's says keep em

 

[DSSA]

Quoting tektic:
Its a fraction of the size but it is a free spinning shaft. Its not connected to transmission or a valve train. Its also blue Kevlar and bigger than a water pump belt. Keep it or don't. It won't bother me none. I just wish I kept mine. That's all I'm saying about it. A 700hp drag car is different than a daily driver. I never wanted a track car. Well maybe a little.



The balance shafts have nothing to do with longevity of the engine, regardless of what anyone is now claiming.

They're there to offset *felt* vibrations, and have no effects on engine harmonics or rotating assembly balancing. Many, many 4 cylinder car engines are/have been built with no balance shaft system.

While I agree with a Kevlar belt, and that it's not connected to the transmission or valve train, it *is* connected to the oil pump, and it does snap Kevlar belts if the front shaft seizes. Then said Kevlar belt (by the rule of DSM averages) gets tangled in the timing belt and you're replacing an engine.

I've built plenty of engines without balance shafts, and removed balance shafts from plenty of stock engines where you couldn't tell that there weren't balance shafts in the build. Of course, I've also removed balance shafts from stock engines where the vibrations increased quite a bit. Balance your rotating assembly, use a decent crank pulley, and in most cases, you'll never remember that they're gone.

 

[manikbastrd]

Thanks DSSA!

What is the general consensus on the extra .001 oil clearance? I have yet to ask my machine shop about it...

 

[prove_it]

I used the ACL with the extra clearence. When I checked the clearance with plastigauge it came out at .002" all bearings. Runs great and oil pressure is perfect. I use Rotella 15w-40. I have yet to inspect the bearings but they seem good.

I heard a lot of good things so I used them with the idea I'll always run a thicker oil.

DSSA addresses good points, but why do so many disagree? Like I said, there is no real proof they help or hinder your engine, honestly... I wish I had kept them for better DD feel.

 

[slugsgomoo]

People love to claim sh*t they know nothing about is mostly why.

Let me add some emphasis here...

IF THE BALANCE SHAFTS WERE REQUIRED TO SAVE BEARINGS THEY WOULD BE IN EVERY 4Gxx ENGINE FROM THE FACTORY


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[prove_it]

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