Advise on build: Regular vs. Billet vs. Gridle Mains and a few other topics

[alansupra94]

So after finishing my 2G/1G engine, I got an excellent deal on some forged parts and decided to start a second engine build on the side. I plan to do a semi-daily driver (maybe like 2 days a week) and shooting for around 650awhp (750hp at the crank) through a Holset VGT turbo.

Here is what I think the build will look like

Bottom End: (1G NA block)
9:1 JE Pistons
Eagle Rods
ACL Race Bearings
Stock Mains (not sure)
ARP main/headstuds

Head: (1G NA head)
1mm oversized valves (5 angle valve job)
Ported and Polished intake and exhaust side (I will definitely check to make sure it is port matched with my Mangus Intake and custom made exhaust manifold).
Manley valvetrain (have to double check what is there but sure its all aftermarket)
MLS headgasket (should I?)
Camshafts (not 100% sure which ones to use)

So the question is for my goals should I:
A. Go with stock mains and arp mains? JayRacing Mains? Girdle?
B. MLS headgasket? O-ring the head/block? Copper Head Gasket?
C. Clearances? Recommended? What do you guys run?
D. Any other suggestions?
E. What clutch would you guys recommend? PPT Twin Disc? Exedy?

I have read conflicting things all around so I would like to see what you guys think.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[broxma]

If you use the Eagle rods, get the 625 hardware at that HP level.

Look into the Titan Head Gasket. It's solid copper with imbedded o-ring, so you can use it on a non-ringed block.

Run it loose by a few thou over OEM.

If you're running a V1 Magnus intake, good chance it will break a seam at the boost you'll need to run to hit that number. If you can, go with the cast one.

The 5 angle is costly and won't be the LimFac on hitting your goal. A basic 3 angle will be fine, unless you can get the 5'er done free/cheap.

I'd go basic ARP mains. Maybe a girdle but that's a budget call. You'll be ok either way I suspect.

You'll need at least a twin disk if you stay with a manual tranny. I'd go built Auto. You'll also need at least a stg 3 tranny most likely to be anywhere close to reliable.

/brox

 

[alansupra94]

For the eagle rods, I am not sure what hardware comes with it, but I will double check.

I will look into that Titan Headgasket. Do you think I need anything that extreme though?

I have this one and that is the first I have heard of a Magnus intake manifold breaking (I have a Accufab 75mm throttle body):
click

The head is already done. I bought it with the crower valvetrain, porting/polishing and 5 angle valve job. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Yeah, I have tossed the idea out of getting billet mains. I highly doubt I would need it and it would just inflate the cost of the build for no reason.

Ironically, I almost got my hands on a 1G AWD Auto but someone picked it up before me. The transmission I am getting will be fully built with custom gears and sychros. I will definitely start looking for a good deal on a twin disc.

Thanks for the response

 

[DynastyLCD]

alan, i cant give you feedback on anything but here's my .02:

all SMIM are at risk of cracking/leaking at high boost. i had a JMF that developed cracks after being run daily at 28 psi for about half a year. ive heard of more magnus breaking from nitrous problems than anything else. i would agree with broxma, go for the cast. i was reading up on the new magnus cast mani and im sold (minus having any of the required $$$$) the AMS unit is badass too, if you can find someone who still has one.

i use a PTT twin disc. i love it. rebuilt it this year (replaced both discs and floater, cleaned flywheel surface) after roughly 9k of daily driving including a pretty hairy winter. the discs still had plenty of meat on them, i replaced mine due to the one closest to the trans had splines half missing off the hub. i called the guys at PTT and they explained to me its a problem due to the nature of our transmission design, and how it doesn't utilize a pilot bearing to keep the input shaft in place. now that competition clutch has that billet fork and pivot ball, id pick those up as well, as the PTT doesn't need a modified fork. i use a 1g FWD slave, no clutch accumulator, and it feels great. very light feel. shaving the clutch fork down was one of the killing factors of the QM unit to me. besides, if i ever had to replace a clutch fork, i wouldn't want to have to shave it down to fit every time. in a nutshell, if i had to do it all over: PTT clutch kit, competition fork & ball, Mitsubishi clutch master & Mitsubishi FWD 1g slave, and any sort of built transmission.

 

[alansupra94]

Thanks for the information dude.

I will definitely look for a PPT Twin Disc around here and pick up the stuff you mentioned.

As for the SMIM, I am not too worried as my welder can easily weld it, and I won't be running a NOS. Probably will run a intercooler spray possibly.

 

[broxma]

So about the V1 Magnus SMIM. I have one you can have real cheap. Why? Because on the dyno, it broke the seam on the plenum. A 5" long seam right by the TB. Oh, we welded it back up. Double line weld in fact, welded the entire seam the whole length of the plenum in fact. And it blew again. This time, on the runner itself where it attaches to the flange.

The V1 SMIM from Magnus is a POS. It is not welded on the inside at all. The welds are clearly not inspected before they ship them and it looks like some kid with a 2 week training course welded it up in his garage. The first problem I had with it was pinhole leaks, leaks at the spots where they removed heat and it went through the metal. Next it was the seam. Mind you, at 18PSI, my car still made 362 WHP on the meanest Mustang dyno known to man, WITH the 5" crack. We simply couldn't keep the thing from prying open like a sardine can. And the guy welding it back together is not some Joe Blow with a "good Idea" how to fix it. It's GD Mike Noriega of Noribilt Fabrication. If he can't keep that thing from exploding, nothing will.

So, to my point, DO NOT get the V1 Magnus SMIM.

I'll get in touch with you about a tranny. Might be able to help you there.

/brox

 

[grocery_getter]

I am still running the original OG Magnus SMIM. Purchased that one maybe 7 years ago? (if I remember right) Yes, it did crack the length of the top seam on me after a few runs. I welded it back up and weld on a diamond tab for reinforcement, take an angle aluminum 1"x 1/8", cut a diamond shape out of it, and weld it in right the middle of the length of the top seam. Run 42psi multiple times thru it. No more problem.

 

[grocery_getter]

I would run ARP L19 with Felro headgasket and call it done.

 

[alansupra94]

Thanks for the help guys.

I will send that intake manifold out to get tested by my welder. Since I have it, I figured I could at least try. Worst case, I will sell it since I got it pretty cheap and get a different manifold.

You think L19 and Felpro MLS will hold? I have heard so many different things my head is ready to explode. PERSONALLY, I think an O-Ringed block w/ SS rings, L19 and Felpro COMPOSITE headgasket might be the best way to go.

Still open to what people think of course.

 

[grocery_getter]

Have him put a reinforcement tab in the middle. The problem is the sheet metal with large pressurized area and it is not thick enough for rigidity. Therefore it balloons under pressure and it tears itself from the long welded section. You can't do anything on the sheet metal plenum itself short of building an identical one with much thicker and therefore more rigid material but you can put a reinforcement in the middle of the seam and it will be good. The reinforcement in the middle break the length of the seam from one long one to 2 shorter one. This increases the rigidity of the seams and no more blow out. My reinforcement tab is diamond shaped and its about 1.5" long.

Casting the manifold like what they do later on gets away from the tear-at-the-seam issue while able to stay with a thin wall design. Not to mention casting gives you way better profit margin than welding.

 

[4thStroke]

O-ringed heads often times leak. Not always, but it does happen. The Felpro/L19 setup should do just fine, its pretty damn stout. Back to the original question, a Kiggley girdle will do fine. In fact, it may not be even necessary, but never a poor investment.

If you are serious about a twin disc, shoot me a PM.

 

[alansupra94]

Well, I think what I am going to do is this since it makes the most sense:

I am going to get the head/block machined flat (whatever the requirement is for MLS gaskets) and run the Felpro and ARP L19. If it holds, it holds. If it doesn't, then I will move to a O-ring design. Doesn't make sense to O-ring stuff if I don't need to AND the fact that once it is done, its tough to go back. I will be going with the Kiggley girdle and possibly the Kiggley regulator (depends on whether I snatch up a NA block or not since I already can see the JE pistons will not clear the oil squirters).

Also I have a twin disc right now I got a for a killer deal but thanks 4thStroke.

 

[alansupra94]

Quoting grocery_getter:
Have him put a reinforcement tab in the middle. The problem is the sheet metal with large pressurized area and it is not thick enough for rigidity. Therefore it balloons under pressure and it tears itself from the long welded section. You can't do anything on the sheet metal plenum itself short of building an identical one with much thicker and therefore more rigid material but you can put a reinforcement in the middle of the seam and it will be good. The reinforcement in the middle break the length of the seam from one long one to 2 shorter one. This increases the rigidity of the seams and no more blow out. My reinforcement tab is diamond shaped and its about 1.5" long.

Casting the manifold like what they do later on gets away from the tear-at-the-seam issue while able to stay with a thin wall design. Not to mention casting gives you way better profit margin than welding.



You can think you show me a picture? I know my welder guy hates when I don't give him a picture lol.