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#139 - 16g dragstrip results: got an 11.

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Blairstown, NJ
Went to Island tonight, mostly to help out GizmoVR4 and his buddy with tuning and setup. Gizmo brought me another 5 gallon can of E85 so I had no choice but to make some passes on the "new to me" small 16G and replacement shortblock that has higher compression. I ran it on 17" street wheels at my normal everyday street weight with kid seats and all.

12.106 @ 115.80 1.755 20psi boost, stupid rich 9.0 AF, stock 1g timing map 385hp.
12.062 @ 114.50 1.684 20psi, backed out about 10% fuel via injector global. smoothed timing out
12.094 @ 115.59 1.750 20psi. smoothing out fuel and timing tune. 385hp via dsmlink. 12.0 AF
12.407 @ 114.08 1.795 25psi spike..settle to 21psi. Missed 3rd due to sweaty hand. 403hp
12.038 @ 115.32 1.651 27psi spike settle to 22psi. 412hp during spike. about 330hp at 6500rpm.
11.823 @ 116.40 1.600 same boost. nailed launch. shifted early seemed to help a bit. 408hp.

Air temps were right about 100*F on the starting line and going up to between 115 and 120*F at traps. Launch rpm was 4500 for the first two runs, then 4750 for rest. Very little tire spin at all. I ended up seeing knock sensor pulling timing on damn near every run, and I kept pulling out a degree of timing or so each time playing with it. Also gotta check for boost leaks or try another boost controller as even with the AEM Tru Boost set to full max, I could only get a 27psi spike that settled down to 22psi.

All in all, I'm very happy with the new wheels & tires. They hook up SO much better than the previous 17" tires, even if they are 16lb more rotating weight. This longblock has higher compression than my old motor, I think about 180psi cranking compression vs 150psi on the old one. Obviously the small 16g made a good 6mph more than I was able to get out of the 14b on E85 a few weeks ago.

So it was a fun night, and getting an 11 was nice seeing this was pretty much my street setup.
 

bazeng

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Feb 6, 2003
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2,520
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Melbourne, Australia
Awesome work!!

I'm just thinking that if you wanted to get rid of your spiking, you could use a product called the TURBO FUSE by GFB.
It basically vents your blow off valve once it hits a certain pressure so if your gate can't maintain the correct pressure, use your bov!!

turbofuse.jpg


But running that time on a small 16g is crazy!
What is the current record for a S16G?
 

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Location
Blairstown, NJ
It's not so much that I want to get rid of the spike (I'll take all the boost I can get - anything up to 30psi), it's more that I likely have a small leak somewhere that is losing just a bit of boost up top. but this is pretty typical boost drop off for a small 16g, I don't think they can normally hold much more than 22-23psi up top.

Anyway, the car will run faster with a huge spike and settle down to 21psi than it will at a constant steady 21psi with no spike. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
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prove_it

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Jul 3, 2008
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Sioux Falls, SD
Good job! Way to represent the grocery getting child hauling cars we all love.
 

turbofonz

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Granby, MA
Good job driving, especially on street tires.

Try running the Evo maps, then tune them for e85. They help with knock at high boost spikes. I'm running 33psi spike on e85 dropping to ~26-27psi. Good enough for 124mph.
 

TWEAKD4

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Mar 24, 2002
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605
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Fort Wayne, IN
Great runs. I love seeing builds maximizing a small turbo vs just bolting up the largest turbo you can buy.
 

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Blairstown, NJ
Quoting turbofonz:
Good job driving, especially on street tires.

Try running the Evo maps, then tune them for e85. They help with knock at high boost spikes. I'm running 33psi spike on e85 dropping to ~26-27psi. Good enough for 124mph.



I would really really like to hear more about your setup that's making huge mph on a 16g. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 

Gizmovr4

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Nov 18, 2009
Messages
366
Location
andover,NJ
I met up with Nate at Island dragway last night. We had some pizza and talked for a little while- then Nate got serious. He helped both my friend and I run the fastest times we had run to date. Nate adjusted on our cars after each run. Here are the fastest results for my GVR4 running E85 at 28psi utilizing a keydiver chip and a SAFCII dialed in by Nate:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Thank you Nate for helping me achieve my goal of running in the 11s with a stock long block and bolt on products with a car that is at full weight including A/C. You are the man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

Thank you Jeff at keydiver for making these incredible chips…
 
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NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Blairstown, NJ
Quoting gizmovr4:
[email protected]

Thank you Nate for helping me achieve my goal of running in the 11s with a stock long block and bolt on products . You are the man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif



Now you need to figure out what your going to do with the car: Rollbar & harness? or slow it down? Keep running till they boot you every week? Feel my pain from last year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif It's a tough choice to make.

And I'm 100% sure we just hit the tip of the iceberg last night with tuning on your car. You still had zero knock, and had just barely got the A/F into the mid 11's. (picking up nearly 8mph through the night via toonering). I bet you can get 125mph out of it with some more timing, tuning, and maybe a couple lb more boost. With you nailing solid mid 1.5's, I wouldn't be surprised if you could knock out a 10 with the car with no mechanical part changes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif I do have to say: Palm Pilot datalogging sucks anus compared to DSMlink w/ speed density. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
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NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Blairstown, NJ
yup. I think a hardcore awd car Curt Brown setup went like 9.97 on an Evo3 16g, Lucas English has gone 10.2 in that silver 1G automatic awd car, and Joe Bucci went 9.9 in project goodwill on a E3 turbo. I'm not sure what the "record" is for a small 16g compared to the Evo3 16g that all the really fast cars run. There are two GVR4's that have gone 11.4 on some form of 16g as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

But there isn't much sense in comparing my fairly heavy/stock engine/street tire car to these other cars that are honestly set on kill for dragstrip. I specifically de-modded #139 after 2009's "getting kicked every time" setup to run slower so I didn't have to deal with rollbar rules for 11.50 or faster. Hahaha, my car doesn't even have aftermarket cams. My goal was to have a high 11 setup at best and have it be the most reliable and "stock like" as possible.

My 1g AWD on the other hand, I intend to run the car flat out on an E3 16g and try to run in the range of the above mentioned cars. Major attention to weight in every area, with the engine combo also set to kill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
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turbofonz

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Sep 27, 2006
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Granby, MA
Quoting NateCrisman:
Quoting turbofonz:
Good job driving, especially on street tires.

Try running the Evo maps, then tune them for e85. They help with knock at high boost spikes. I'm running 33psi spike on e85 dropping to ~26-27psi. Good enough for 124mph.



I would really really like to hear more about your setup that's making huge mph on a 16g. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif



I realize this is vr-4 site, but this is my 1g's setup, and I know you're building yours to run fast

stock bottomend, no balance shafts, BC272's
evo3, FP race manifold, ported 2g o2 housing, full 3" turboback
RC1000's, 255 walbro, ecmlink v3 /speed density
ETS 4" thick FMIC
2600, 4 puck, fidanza, 4 bolt rear, Hoosier QTPs, blah blah blah
Car wieghs ~2900 with me in it.
Pulled 3 11.0's and one 11.11. All traps where 123-124.57 in 95* weather!
video
First pass was 11.60@ 122 on my evo wheels pedaling first and second gear.
This is a full street car with no cage, so I was getting yelled at all day. The tune was a street tune and I made no adjustments at the track other than adding a degree of timing. This is all still through the air filter and out the muffler, all seats etc.I know the car will go 10's on the 16g, hopefully at the shootout.

So I'm sure your tin can can make some big numbers. e85 FTW
 

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
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Location
Blairstown, NJ
Yeah, Im figuring my tin can is going to end up about 2700 with driver. Much of our setup is very similar:

[*]V3 DSMlink, SD. 950's, bosch 044, -6 lines, 1 gal fuel cell in fenderwell. Starting with E85...hopefully trying out straight methanol. Single fogger NOS kit.
[*]4" to 3" cold air intake, air/water intercooler, custom made J pipe, Fial bov, JMF sheetmetal intake manifold.
[*] E3 manifold, E3 16g, tube 2.5" o2 housing, open 3" short downpipe dumping behind steering rack. Internal gate shimmed to heck
[*] stock bottom end, BSE kit, forward OFH, mild ported 1g head, HKS 264I/272E cams, stock gears, alum crank pulley.
[*] fidanza flywheel, 6 puck unsprung disk, ACT2900pp, frankenstien stock trans, welded center, VC sleeve. 22 spline aluminum Xcase, 4 bolt rear.
[*] AGX shocks, GC coilovers, straight 0 alignment, 2g GST wheels w/ Hoosier QTP tires.
[*]Mild steel 6pt rollbar, RCI plastic seat, gutted rollup doors, chopped up wiring, empty dash, swaybars out. PS, AC, cruise, heat, stereo, power doors all deleted. FG hood & deleted ground effects. cut down front crossmembers. Likely will gut rest of interior (carpet, dash, hatch plastics) Saving weight everywhere I can for free or cheap.
[/list]
Its really just lots of fairly cheap parts tossed together. Could be much lighter if I had money for aluminum coilovers, light wheels, lexan, light brakes, alum driveshaft, tube crossmember and control arms, chromoly rollbar. There's like 200+lb in that list that is all $ parts.

I think my goal is going to be "anything in the 10's" with the 16g, but it should be able to go about 10.6 to 10.5 without the nitrous. With spray it should be capable of a 9? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif
 
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turbofonz

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Sep 27, 2006
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475
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Granby, MA
I thought yours was lighter.

My car is indeed light for a street car which is definitely a plus, but it's not getting anymore weight taken out. I think it's the perfect balance right now.

CAI's are awesome. I have a CAI velocity stack I want to try out to see if it does anything, but a little more tune or driving and I want to see a 10.9999 with this car then it's getting my HTA 30r and my Vr-4 will get the whole 16g setup and hopefully be mid-low 12's one day.

I know you can work magic 60's with those QTP's, my best so far's only been 1.57. Looking forward to seeing what you can muster up.
 

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
Messages
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Location
Blairstown, NJ
Strange, but when I had the 50trim T3T4 setup on the GVR4, I was able to go 1.48 to 1.52 no trouble. They seemed to dead hook and I could leave as aggressive as I dared try....which lead to breaking the rear drivers 4bolt axle. That was fall of 2009. I'v run the hoosiers twice this season with a 14b making like 200hp less and can't seem to get a 60' to save my life. Maybe due to track conditions those two nights? Maybe the instant torque of 14b? But I was having a hard time even going consistent 1.6's in 2010 on the same hoosier tires. It felt like they loost all innitial "stick". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

BTW, Im trying to estimate the talon's weight going off a NJDSM forum post from 2005 that I dug up where I said it was 2780 on Etown's scale. I'm not at all sure how accurate that # is, and Im just taking the changes from 2005 to this year's intended setup and Im getting about 180lb of weight loss compared to the setup from 2005. so my innitial guess was likely way high. The car should be about 2600 even with driver in 2010.

That's with stock glass windows, a stock full size radiator, and a fat 240lb driver. (realistically Im not doing lexan, half radiator, or lossing much weight off my gut this season)
 

deez

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May 29, 2004
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1,150
Location
Chico, CA
Bad ass times, congrats! One more reason I love my E16G
 

biglady112

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Sep 30, 2005
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Commerce City, Co
Nate please don't use a aluminum cran pulley. Your mains bearings will hate you for it. At the least stay with a stock one. No sense in risking the motor for like 2-3 pounds.
 

NateCrisman

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Nov 22, 2008
Messages
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Location
Blairstown, NJ
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif Internet Myth started by Dave Buschur in order to sell his $500 custom crank pulley (circa 2001) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif I don't believe it in the slightest, I'v run a light aluminum crank pulley on maybe 5 or 6 engines over the years with no main bearing issues.

I call BS based on personal experience /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 
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TWEAKD4

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Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
605
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Quoting gizmovr4:
I met up with Nate at Island dragway last night. We had some pizza and talked for a little while- then Nate got serious. He helped both my friend and I run the fastest times we had run to date. Nate adjusted on our cars after each run. Here are the fastest results for my GVR4 running E85 at 28psi utilizing a keydiver chip and a SAFCII dialed in by Nate:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Thank you Nate for helping me achieve my goal of running in the 11s with a stock long block and bolt on products with a car that is at full weight including A/C. You are the man /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

Thank you Jeff at keydiver for making these incredible chips…


Can you please share your setup.?
 
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