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E-Test failed - PASSED!!!

I'm the proud new owner of 1886 and enjoying the ride. Unfortunately when I had the car tested at the emissions center it did not pass. HCs were too high, about 4 times than the allowed HCs which is about 2.5 (1886 was pumping out something like 8.4). What should I do to fix this small problem? What causes a higher Hydrocarbon reading in the exhaust? Bad cat? Exhaust leak? I have plans for a 3in exhaust system soon. Any advice will be helpful.
 
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Diego

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
Look for an Egr block off and a fiav block off plate near/on the throttle body


Edit: I wouldn't pass either that's why I stay registered in Iowa.
 
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1990ggsxnj

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Nov 21, 2008
Messages
525
Location
Blackwood, NJ
+2 on EGR. Same thing happened to me on one of my previous Talons. Funny thing was it was an N/t and that was really the only mod /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
This is peter's old car? (if so you scored! it's a damn nice ride /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

He was up in no emissions required land, so this is probably the first time that car has been tested in quite some time.

Was this car tested on the dyno?

The im240 test is a loaded test, and simulates a full drive cycle, and it tests for three polutants.

Carbon Monoxide (co)

Hydrocarbons (hc)

Nitrogen oxide (nox)


It's worth noting that taking the egr out of the loop will result in a major increase in nox readings, and the vehicle will probably fail that particulate under cruise conditions.

If you can, please scan or take a good picture of the emissions trace they gave you when you failed and post it up. (the page with all the colored lines).

Knowing the co and nox levels will help determine the nature and cause of the high hc readings.

It will also help show if it's small issue everywhere problem, or a massive issue with one particular area of operation.

If it spikes under load, you;re might want to look for a problem in the ignition secondary. (Plugs and wires) Make sure the ignition coil terminals are clean and corrosion free, and fire in a set of fresh ngk spark plugs, (Heat range and gap adjusted for your particular set-up.)



One of the best places to start working this situation is a logger.

High hc can be caused by a lean running condition. If the low trims show fuel being added, you;re looking for vacuum leaks

Many folks will recomend running a mix of ethanol (e-85), and that will help (especially if you've disabled the egr), but note that there is a visual inspection so the egr valve must be installed on the vehicle, and the vacuum routing must match the emission diagram on the hood. (doesn;t mean that a small ball bearing may or may not have materialised in the feed line to the egr from the thermal valve ... mysteriously ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )


I see you're a tech, so you've probably got some pretty damn saavy folks around you at work. Don;t be afraid to ask them for help. The old guys know a thing or two. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

See if you can get one of them help you test your cat. All you need is a digital pyrometer that reads to 1000 degrees, and a lift. Run the ever lovin dogshit out of the car, then drive it right on a lift and shoot the cat inny and outty temps. The outty should be much warmer the inny, if not, the catalyst may be weak.


I've been fighting the battle of getting 4g63's thru emissions for years, so I've got some *small* amount of experience in the matter. If I can help in any way, shoot me a pm with your phone number and I can walk you thru a few other tests and tricks.

As a last resort, I have found a loophole in the testing protocall for awd four wheel steering equiped cars, and know "the guy" at the referree station. We can probably get you exempted from the dyno, and then you will only have to pass a stationary idle/2500rpm test.

With just a few changes/tweeks, we should be able to get you thru that without any major difficulties. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You are entitled to a free re-test within ten days from your original test, so make it count!

Good luck and please update the thread with what you find.
 

snohacking

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
233
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wi
Tell the DMV the car is kept in a no emissions required county, you will have to do some searching to see if there is any in your state. This worked for my talon of years now anything 1995 and older doesn't need testing in Wisconsin.
 
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Yes this is Peters old ride and it always puts a grin on my face. My friend noticed that a little bit (not a lot) of white smoke (oil) would shoot out right before boost and then black smoke would spew (fuel). I'm guessing that a better ignition system would help a bit with the black smoke so not a lot of hcs are dumped out the exhaust. As for the white puff, I'm thinking rebuilding the bottom end? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif As for the E Test data sheet, I should have that posted up in a bit. If not it's because of work and school but I will do my best.

One other thing I forgot is that 1886 does run lean at times, not during idle though but when I let off the gas and the engine goes under vacuum. Not to mention that I think the bov needs to be replaced because under the same condition (vacuum) I hear this whistle. When I give a little gas it goes away but when the throttle plate closes the whistle returns.

Edit: I wonder if installing a meth injection kit would help as well. If so then I don't mind dishing out another $25 to get another test to install a meth kit. Passing emissions while gaining free horse power? That'd be nice.
 
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Just curious from seeing some VR4 owners based in CO, are there GVR4 meets anywhere? I know the 3KGT guys from 3si meet up at Red Rocks and what not. Also a new location for some meets are off by Colorado and I-25 by the Starbucks and Barnes and Noble.
 




Here is the readout of the e test.

HC GPM readings are at 8.6008, limit is 2.5000
CO GPM readings are at 22.7202, limit is 20.0000
CO2 index is at 362.3732
NOX GPM readings are 3.6142, limit is 6.0000
 

Diego

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
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Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
I wouldn't know myself as of yet as I'm new to here. I just landed a job out here ( p.s. Brandon ill be sending you some money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) but ToyBreaker would know just about what is what and where.
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
Quote:
HC GPM readings are at 8.6008, limit is 2.5000
CO GPM readings are at 22.7202, limit is 20.0000
CO2 index is at 362.3732
NOX GPM readings are 3.6142, limit is 6.0000




Time to look over your ignition system/check your fuel pressure and look at the fuel trims on a logger.



A boost leak check would be a good way to proceed, but be aware that it may not show some problem areas that *could* be causing your issues. (i.e. vacuum leaks)


If the trims show fuel being added on the low end and pulled on the top end, suspect a vacuum/boost leak post throttle body. Be sure to thoroughly check the seals at the base of the injectors, as these are a prime candidate for issues on higher mileage motors.

Your o2 sensor can be checked by removing the reference line to the fpr and plugging it at idle. (The o2 values should increase as the fuel pressure increases becuase the fpr is now referencing ambient barometeric pressure instead of the vauum that is actually present inside the engine.)

You can also give the thing a massive vacuum leak by pulling the p.c.v. hose off the mani, and the o2 values should drop like a rock.

If you don;t have a datalogger (should be your next purchase /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) you can use a snap-on mt2500 scanner (the "brick") to check other values as well. Things like tps, coolant/air temps and the like all affect the mix and therefore the emissions that come out the tailpipe.



... and then test your catalyst ...

Many aftermarket cats don;t have much of the precious metals/materials that make a catalyst "work", and so they weaken quite quickly and it may not be perfoming up to the task.

A digital pyrometer will tell that tale.

I'm not getting out much right now, but if you need a pyrometer, let me know and I'll make some arrangements to get one to you.

I would suggest that you focus on getting the thing thru emissions before modifying anything drastically.

Optimising a meth kit at the same time you're trying to get daisies to come out the tailpipe can be quite the challenge...

Good luck, and please keep us updated.

If you;d like to pm your phone number I can run down some other stuff to check.

John
 

Would it be worth my time and money to take the car to a tuner shop like MAC Auto to have the fuel trim corrected?
 

I talked to Peter today and from what he says the injectors are newer aftermarket 660cc. Not sure on the brand but they do look brand new. I have plans for a full 3in exhaust and a new cat once I get my tax refunds, I'm hoping that will help me pass emissions. Speaking of fuel injectors, Peter also mentioned that I could adjust the fuel pressure regulator to cut down on the black smoke when the turbo spools up, would that (and turning off the boost controller) help with passing emissions?
 

ktmrider

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Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,128
Location
Tempe, AZ
Quoting R34P3R62:
I talked to Peter today and from what he says the injectors are newer aftermarket 660cc. Not sure on the brand but they do look brand new. I have plans for a full 3in exhaust and a new cat once I get my tax refunds, I'm hoping that will help me pass emissions. Speaking of fuel injectors, Peter also mentioned that I could adjust the fuel pressure regulator to cut down on the black smoke when the turbo spools up, would that (and turning off the boost controller) help with passing emissions?

How is the car being "tuned" for the aftermarket injectors?!?

Playing with the FPR to modulate pressure is not the ideal method, might get you to pass emissions but long-term could cause engine damage/failure.
 

Dark_Horse

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
303
Location
Morrison, CO
Quoting mitsuturbo:
Colorado has all wheel dynos to do drive tests on now?



Yes. They've had em for at least 8 years now.

OP - if you are seeing black smoke shoot out the tail pipe whenever the turbo spools that's the reason you are failing the emissions test. Either get some way to tune your car for the 660's, or go get a set of 450's and put them back in.
 

Over due on results for the e test. After looking at my options I replaced the catalytic converter, burned off the rest of the old gas in the tank to put in new 91 V Power, and set the boost down as low as possible.

First initial run didn't go so well from coolant overflowing out of the tank. I thought a hose melted or burned and at worse something cracked. This had me concerned but the second time through I pointed out to the technicians that there IS a fmic on 1886. I ask them if they could increase the fan speed for the air they push through the car to help cool the engine. The best they could do was angle the fan rather than have the fan sit perpendicular to the car.

Second time around (same day) no coolant overflow this time around so a full complete test and what seemed like a long wait for the moment of truth. After being called to pay the fees, I eagerly asked if the car passed. As always the ass masters at the emissions test never say unless paid. Well last time the car failed, HC levels were at 8.6 vs 2.5 and CO 22.7 vs 20.0 and this time around the CO levels barely passed few points below allowed limit, however HC still didn't pass, barely (1.8 vs 1.5). For some reason before allowed HC levels were one point more and I'm guessing it's because it's summer.

So there I am disappointed that all the work I put into replacing the cat (and busting off rusted bolts)were all for nothing. I drove the car around a little more pondering what else I could do to shave just more than 0.3 points off my HC levels. I returned (same day again) with the idea of convincing the technicians to try not using the turbo. Many of you can guess why I asked them for this and I figure less fuel dumped out of the exhaust means less use of the turbo. Another round of endless waiting until a different tech called me to give me the news I want to hear. CO levels were even lower than the first round and finally, 1886 barely passed with 1.44 GPMs of HC.

I am happy that I am done with this crap for the next 2 years.
 
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Diego

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Dec 9, 2007
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2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
Congrats.... now come to Greeley and help me put 1309 back together. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
 

Diego

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
That makes two of us... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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