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Valve cover vent + PCV question


Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387599 posted 09/28/06 10:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've done a little searching but didn't find much. However, I think this information is out there. I just can't seem to find it.

I want my valve cover vent to be routed like stock. From the valve cover to the intake pipe. But I don't want any oil in my intake. I'm not sure how a real catch can works. I am thinking oil would still pass through one under high boost circumstances. Is there a way to plumb everything so air can travel freely in both directions but oil can't get in the intake?

I thought about an in line filter, but it would just get clogged up with oil. I also thought about a pcv in reverse or a on way valve, but both of those would only let air travel one way as well.

Can someone explain the internal workings of a catch can to me? Does any one have any ideas how to accomplish no oil in my intake?

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387622 posted 09/28/06 11:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
For the catch can, oil shoots in, slaps against the opposite wall, and slides down (hopefully) while air exits out another opening. I would think that angled inlets and outlets so that incoming air spirals around the sides and then exits out the center of the top, would be a great way to go. For the RRE can (old one), for example, you could plug the other side port, and put your line to the intake coming off the top where the filter would be.

There are posts on here using various filters in line, and I would think that would be a good secondary catch between the exit of the can and the intake.

RRE catch cans here

The new no-name catch can from RRE looks pretty slick. I never know how much is in my catch can, this seems like a good upgrade if I go with a two can approach to keep the PCV operational. Its a better design to separate oil, but you could still use a clear fuel filter as a double check for its operation.

-PJ


Edited by PJGross (09/28/06 11:24 AM)

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stealthtt24
Holy deer monkey donkey balls looking for a pole


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387623 posted 09/28/06 11:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
the url button is fucked, but thats the thread i was looking at.
Im either going to go back to stock or have some sort of catch can between the valve cover vent and my intake pipe, pcv will be left stock.

URL button FTW



91 GVR4s 1332, 1635, 1507, all sold


Edited by steveVR4 (09/28/06 11:44 AM)

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PJGross
both buccal and lingual
490/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387627 posted 09/28/06 11:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
just to add, no, the old RRE can does not to my knowledge spiral the air. I just suggested that that would be a nice design, kind of like that fancy vaccuum cleaner, or industrial particulate filters (for sawdust, etc). However, if using a return line, I would just avoid putting the return directly across from the inlet and you should be fine. I'd still exit out the top since oil particles are not dissolved in air, just suspended, and should slap the side of the tank anyway. The filter would be a nice check and if it looked clean after a few weeks, you could remove it or keep it as an indicator of something changing if you notice it getting full of oil at some point.

-PJ



#490/1000

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MattPark
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387660 posted 09/28/06 12:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Why would you want it hooked up like stock?

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iLLeffeKt vr-4
Hertz pulverized mine
1759/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387661 posted 09/28/06 12:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i installed two in line fuel filters. one from the PCV to the manifold and the other from the side exit of the valve cover to the intake pipe. so far i've put about 200 miles on the car and not even one drop of oil in any of the filters. i think it would take a very long time for them to get clogged up. and when they do they're only $3 each at pepboys/autozone.



Adrian
1759/2000 Summit White Sold
1991 Eclipse GS-X Sold
2013 EVO X MR - Daily

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387705 posted 09/28/06 02:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Why would you want it hooked up like stock?




I don't want to eliminate the pcv as I have read it serves a purpose (active removal). If I leave the valve cover vent vented to atmosphere, when the pcv opens the vc vent will act as a vacuum leak unless it sucks metered air. I want to eliminate the oil in my intake from when the flow is in the opposite direction.

It sounds like an in line catch can or an in line filter or both will fit the bill. I'm just concerned that when the turbo sucks air, it will suck hard enough to pull oil out of the catch can.

Thanks

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TOF
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387710 posted 09/28/06 02:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Catch cans are a proven solution. So are in-line filters. I use a cheap clear plastic fuel filter and it works great. After two or three months it will accumulate a little oil in the bottom but the filter material stays pretty clean...no evidence of clogging. Then I spend another 3 bucks and replace it.

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1609gvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387906 posted 09/28/06 09:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
any chance you could post a pic TOF?

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 387975 posted 09/29/06 12:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Catch cans are a proven solution. So are in-line filters. I use a cheap clear plastic fuel filter and it works great. After two or three months it will accumulate a little oil in the bottom but the filter material stays pretty clean...no evidence of clogging. Then I spend another 3 bucks and replace it.




I have the same thing on my car. So far I can see oil being collected, but I haven't really looked at the inside of my IC piping to be sure that NONE is getting through. Here's a pic:




-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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BadVr4
wanted a different answer
801/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 388295 posted 09/29/06 02:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
why do you wanna run it into the stock intake? that blow by oil is bad for the turbo, just run a line from the breather and from the pcv valve to the catch can, and all problems solved!

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Paul Mc369
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 388306 posted 09/29/06 02:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
TSigvr4,
I know the oil is bad for the turbo. That is the point of this thread. I want to stop the oil from entering my intake pipe. But if I disconnect the pcv (ie run it to a catch can) I will lose active circulation under the valve cover. The pcv serves a purpose other than just emissions. It sucks the crap out. It might be fine to disconnect it on a drag car because those don't run for very long and the oil gets changed very often. But a daily driver is different.


Edited by Paul Mc369 (09/29/06 02:44 PM)

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TOF
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 388327 posted 09/29/06 03:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

any chance you could post a pic TOF?





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946
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403796 posted 11/07/06 09:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
TOF, you might as well just run the valve cover vent to a catch can. Having it plumbed to the intake ahead of your MAF like that is really the exact same thing. Your valve cover vent is still sucking in non metered air when the PCV opens. The only advantage to your setup is that the air is being filtered.

The reason to run that vent back into the intake, is so that all air entering the engine has been counted. Your AFM (in this case a GM MAF) is well down stream of where that valve cover vent is hooked up to. That vent sucks air right in through your cone filter, totally bypassing the MAF.

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oneup
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403827 posted 11/07/06 10:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:



I don't want to eliminate the pcv as I have read it serves a purpose (active removal). If I leave the valve cover vent vented to atmosphere, when the pcv opens the vc vent will act as a vacuum leak unless it sucks metered air. I want to eliminate the oil in my intake from when the flow is in the opposite direction.

Thanks




I've always wonder how this "unmetered air" from valve cover vent can get into the cylinders?


Edited by oneup (11/07/06 10:51 PM)

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946
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403834 posted 11/07/06 11:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
"I've always wonder how this "unmetered air" from valve cover vent can get into the cylinders?"

Vacuum in the intake manifold sucks open the PCV valve and draws the unmetered air, along with any blow-by gases, directly into the intake manifold.

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946
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403836 posted 11/07/06 11:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
One more post and I will shut up for a while.

This appears to be a practical catch can. However the routing diagram is a little bit off for our purposes.

For our cars we would leave our PCV valve routing intact, and use the catch can on the "clean" side.

ebay auction

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oneup
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403873 posted 11/08/06 07:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

"I've always wonder how this "unmetered air" from valve cover vent can get into the cylinders?"

Vacuum in the intake manifold sucks open the PCV valve and draws the unmetered air, along with any blow-by gases, directly into the intake manifold.




so if you have both line(pcv and valve cover vent)hooked up to catch can, it shouldn't have any unmetered air right?

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403908 posted 11/08/06 08:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My catchcan vent typically blows oil spray all over that side of the engine bay. I'm currently running NO pcv valve. I've routed both the valve cover and pcv outlets to my catchcan. The useless filter sits on top of it.

I'd like to get this back to as stock as possible by:

1) Adding an inline filter to the valve cover vent and running that beneath the car and out.
2) Re-installing the pcv valve and routing a hose from that to the catchcan.
3) Blocking the second inlet for the catchcan, and running a hose from the top outlet to a port on the intake manifold. This way the pcv valve is vaccuum activated, but the catchcan can hopefully catch oil in its liquid form before it gets to the intake mani. Obviously oil vapor can still pass to the intake.

So in this case, I would not be doing anything with the metered air coming from the valve cover vent.

Would this setup work, or will something screwy happen? I'd like to get the pcv valve back into the system and operational.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403913 posted 11/08/06 08:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
When the PCV opens it will pull air out of the Valve cover. When you leave the vent tube open it can suck air through that and into the intake manifold, this will be unmetered air. Not much air but it will be there. After having my catch can a while and reading up on it more I too am going to put a pcv back in. I am going to tap my Dejon intake pipe for a barb fitting though and do it exactly as stock, with the exception of a catch can between the PCV and IM and filter on the Valve cover vent to Intake pipe hose to try and stop oil build up.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

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RayH
Senior Member
561/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403928 posted 11/08/06 09:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If people are worried about unmetered air, you can put a T off the catchcan. Run one branch to the small filter and another branch to the stock intake location. Then put check valves in both branches so that under vacuum air comes from the stock intake and under pressure air goes out the filter.

Notice that the pcv valve and valve cover vent are close to opposite sides of the cover. This is so under vacuum you get a consistent flow of air through the top of the valve cover pulling any moisture from blow by out. Water is a by product of cumbustion and if not removed mixes with other things to form acids and sludge. Not that our engines are prone to sludging but it should keep your oil cleaner. People with catchcans should notice that it's not just oil that they're catching, if it was then there wouldn't be a problem with the contents freezing like some people have noticed.

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 403977 posted 11/08/06 11:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are those inline filter "fuel filters?" I just came back from AutoZone and all I could find were different fuel filters. I didn't even check for the one-way valves.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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PastaRocket
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404004 posted 11/08/06 12:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What you went to autozone and couldn't find what you wanted......naaaaaawwwww.

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Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404014 posted 11/08/06 01:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes, clear fuel filters.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

Posts: 8936 | From: NE, IN | Member Since: 01/10/05 | IP: (69.245.199.104) | Report this post to a Moderator

CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 404015 posted 11/08/06 01:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Bite it.

Are you in the Wakefield store today? If so, I'll stop by in the next hour and you can show me what you've got there.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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