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ECMLink v3 - front 02 issue.


FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1230978 posted 08/12/16 03:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Link newbie. I mean 100%, totally bobbing for apples with a set tweezers. Not my cup of tea just yet. That aside ... there are chappies here that have seen some issues ... here is mine.

ECMLink v3 running the latest version - 3.29.64, not the stable version listed as 3.27.92.
Front o2 does not swing, now sitting at 0.2V. New Denso sensor, only idle time for maybe an hour total, installed in 2015.
Car overheated in the spring of 2015 and I tore down the cooling system and updated a bunch of wiring, but nothing near the cylinder head (already performed that in 2014 at which point the 02 swing was fine on another laptop and at the time of the overheat). Fan blew off the motor because my motor tilted too far forward making contact - long story, tight tolerance at the time - sorted now. See radiator threads ...
Thought maybe my newly installed ECU was bad (bought this season and just installed - passed by ECMLink guys before PO shelved and then shipped it to me), installed another spare ECU and swapped link chip. Same issue in both datalogs, 0.2V flat line.
Installed new Bosch o2 sensor, plugged it into the connector but not into the housing/exhaust stream but key forward and link logging, same issue 0.2V flat line.
The sensor installed into the o2 housing could possibly be ruled out as having suspect/pulled wires at the sensor wire intake area, as the wiring from the Bosch sensor would have meant a clean section up to the factory plug at the corner of the cylinder head.
Nothing wrong with the sensor output last season before the rebuild. Wires to the o2 sensor could have been pulled at the sensor end with my radiator fitment being so lengthy, but again the Bosch sensor was installed temporarily in place of those.
I could have sworn I was running the latest version of Linkv3 when the car was last running and the chip should therefore have it.
I did borrow a laptop from my pops, and the software listed in the first sentence is running for the first time on that. Every other data point is working as it should,
including the fact that I know I have some data values not nearly dialed in as they should be. Another story .. focusing on the o2 sensor now.

Short of pinning the wires and checking resistance, could I have a strange code issue? Reboot required? How to transfer old setting without writing it down ....

Sitting at 0.2V is a strange sort of output/reading isn't it?

Shorted should be a different value or worse I just did damage to multiple boards - never seen an 02 sensor problem take out an ECU yet thought.
Resistance, should still swing but out of range, but not peg at one voltage in the somewhat the median?

My Innovate MTX-L sensor is installed just below the exhaust downpipe flange, and swings just like it should. Thus I know the AFR is not pegged one way or the other, as the engine is operating. Almost forgot that reference point, so just added it.
Brand new exhaust gasket at that downpipe flange, so things are indeed leak free in the vicinity, up or down of the sensors.

Straws ... grasping ... me.

Any ideas?



C53A 1 of the ~1500


Edited by FlyingEagle (08/12/16 03:21 PM)

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.87.214) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1230992 posted 08/13/16 09:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Got some trim out on the way, in the cabin near the rf lower kick panel, and going the 02 sensor test plug.
Jammed a thin probe inside and attached my multimeter (set to AC volts), and proceeded to start the car.
Sensor voltage came up slowly within a few seconds and "stabilized", at 0.020v. So, hard wire condition confirmed.
I got a possible lead saying that a bad ground could cause a weird electrical gremlin, so off to check the harness side all the way down to the grounds and signal side.




C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (24.114.91.96) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231046 posted 08/15/16 09:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hooked up a backprobe to one of the black wires (both are ground and connect later in the harness anyways, and share the same ground path as many other sensors), and grounded it to a bolt for the valve cover. This bolt is new and clean, so I hope any coating didn't seriously affect conductivity ...
Still getting 0.2V solid line when the sensor comes online with engine start. Everything else swings or sits flat as it should or as appropriate.

There are only four wires to the sensor:
Red = power
Black, black = ground
White = signal to ECU, ground shield jacket is grounded with the other two ground wires.

I thought maybe my firmware was out of date because the software and firmware do not share the same release number.
Got a firmware request, used it and updated the firmware ... but it appears to be the same firmware release: 3.28.119, boot version 3.18.47

So, I am stumped. I'll put in a request for some help with the guys on the ECMLink forum.
But first, I will fire it up one more time and see what happens now that I have flashed it again.



C53A 1 of the ~1500


Edited by FlyingEagle (08/15/16 09:09 PM)

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.203.130) | Report this post to a Moderator

iceman69510
Turn Right Racing
855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231051 posted 08/16/16 07:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Often 4-wire sensors have a heater circuit. I don't see you mention that in your wiring scheme. Is this one heated?



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
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Posts: 10535 | From: Michigan | Member Since: 03/05/01 | IP: (205.144.100.200) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231101 posted 08/17/16 08:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It should be a standard 4 wire (heated) sensor just like a 90-94 DSM or GVR4 with our strict emissions would use. It is a Denso (or so I remember it coming in a Denso box), direct fit model. Click me for the RTMRacing product page

No CEL or codes at this time.

Here are the shared sensors for each wire color and function:

Red PIN 3 - 02, MAF, CAS, FPR, 2 pins MPI, INJ resistor, 2 pins on ISC, Purge CTRL sol. <- Power from Pin 102 + 107 on the ECU. 02 is near the outer portion of the red wire travelling.
White PIN 1 - Jacket-ground shielded from RFI - T-'s in with a black wire to make a connection point at the 02 connector test point near the ECU.
Black PIN 2 - This wire gets the attachment point to the ground shield, then joins Black pin #4.
Black PIN 4 - This wire joints PIN 2 and gets grounded to the chassis shortly afterwards. PIN 2 and PIN 4 share the same ground location.

Not knowing what function either of the two ground wires performs directly with regards to the powered portions (heater or signal?), leaves me shaking my head.

I like pinpoint tests like "check resistance on these two wires, at a certain temperature, condemn this function if not in spec".

Here I don't have that. I do have two sensors, and when cold, maybe share similar values but I won't hold my breathe between two manufacturers having nearly identical shared values.
The Densor is a much thinner unit and the Bosch is very thick.

Maybe all this idle time and lack of driving and AFR's swinging wildly out of whack while everything was getting tinkered with before the rad blew, just about two years ago now, has caused my sensor to gack.

Not sure why this would happen unless one section of wire is out of spec and a complete lack of heater power feed or something would cause this sort of condition to both sensors that were plugged in.

I'll have to check for power and ground when I get the DVOM back to the house. Of ALL the things to hold me back after painstaking wire repair and attention to detail ... doesn't surprise me.

I can say with fairly decent certainty, that any issue would have to be very isolated and very near the CTS or 02 connector, as the remainder of that harness was working just fine before all this and all the sensors sharing that wiring are up to speed AFAIK.



C53A 1 of the ~1500


Edited by FlyingEagle (08/17/16 08:49 PM)

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.203.130) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231122 posted 08/18/16 06:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The thought has occured that I could use the wideband as a narrow band input to the ECU.
I just wasn't a fan of having the sensor past the downpipe flange, as gaskets leaking can affect readings quite a bit; new gasket however.



C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.203.130) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231141 posted 08/19/16 06:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Some of you get to laugh at me.

Yes, I knew about the MTX-L having a simulated narrowband output wire, but it also has a wideband wire that when "connected" to the ECU input correctly (at say the front or other input pins), can allow you to use the wideband input and ECMLink will do the narrowband simulation in the chipset for you!

I brought home torches to persuade the sensor to come out because apparently I am a monster at installing sensors into clean threads (I am joking here), and went either well above the torque spec or the coppery anti-seize has done nothing but create a thread wedge. Not a fan of entry level antiseize for high heat applications, so a little of the Nickle based Permatex stuff is going on next time.
I can by all means leave the factory 02 sensor right where it is, but it would be nice to know it can and will come out with little fuss. I have a plug for the bung also, and that is somewhere in the parts cabinet ... in theory.

Okay, that is my update before the weekend starts and everyone is off to the shootout, while I am all out balling and otherwise ready to roll, representing from home on two stands!!!! REPRESENTING MITSUBISHI FOR CANADA RIGHT HERAAAAAAAH !!!!! Toucher my friends, toucher!



C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.203.130) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1231311 posted 08/27/16 08:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Put the new Bosch NB sensor into the newly re-cut threads in the o2 housing, and low and behold, using the stock wiring it sat pegged at the lowly 0.2V threshold. Okay, I made a patch harness that incorporated the entire length of wiring for the narrow band setup and knock sensor, from a 1991 AWD Talon. It sits lying in wait, should I choose to run both inputs, NB and WB. I should probably tap off the NB sensor now .....

Took the NB out and put it into the bung below the flange, WB now in the o2 housing. Flipped the switches for inputs to be able to see and log the WB in the front o2 position, also pinned the yellow wire from the WB to pin 4 on the ECU (NB input wire) - I didn't try pin 15 or 16 (not necessarily in order, but they are Baro and EGR temp sensor inputs).

So, ECU runs well with the WB input and it interprets the Bosch WB rather well, with a 0.2V to 0.8V swing. My coolant offset is wonky at idle when I restart hot because or maybe not because, when it restarts hot it will idle like junk until the heater finishes its cycle in the WB, then idle can sort itself out and go closed loop. Not sure if coolant offset affects open or closed loop operation in this regard, or at all.

Car is dialling itself in and I got an emissions test and an alignment performed to my specs (real easy because I have K-Sports with adjustable front top hats, and I did not use the lower adjustment built into the shock lowers, solid rear axle sitting near stock ride height so no side to side offset due to excessive height or lowering). Car now tracks as f$cking straight as an arrow that doesn't feel the effects of gravity, nor wind. Best analogy I could figure on, without referencing a laser beam.

Lots of tuning needed to bring certain values into check, but I can now drive around and things don't appear to be coming apart at the seams just yet. I do have a rotational knock at the right rear as discovered last night,so that bears investigating. Stiff ride and stiff sidewall tires (Dunlop Direzza DZ 102's - 205/50R15 on Summit/Galant Wagon wheels. Stiff but compliant set at middle point on the K-Sports Kontrol Pros. Anywho, that is an aside for now.



C53A 1 of the ~1500


Edited by FlyingEagle (08/29/16 11:09 PM)

Posts: 1541 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (99.224.82.255) | Report this post to a Moderator


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