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Custom EH Motorsports FP Racing manifold shroud. (UPDATED)


EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188132 posted 09/09/14 12:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evan is knocking up a PoC heat shroud for the FP manifold. I thought it might be fun to take some temps from my current setup to compare to the finished product. Currently, I've got titanium cloth around my FP mani, and reflective heat tape on my IC piping as it goes over the top of the manifold.

Temp gauge tops out around 666F (which is oddly evil and specific).

Before:

click

After:

click

Forgive the ticking. It's not an exhaust leak or lifters. I have my license plate on a hinge so it swings up at-speed and allows more airflow to the intercooler. That hinge makes a bit of noise while idling.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)


Edited by EfiniX (10/08/14 02:07 AM)

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G
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188168 posted 09/09/14 05:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So your intake mani was hotter than your jpipe. Do you have one of those plastic spacers installed?



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www.nostalgic.co.jp

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GSTwithPSI
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188172 posted 09/09/14 06:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The problem with your test is that the infrared thermometer is reading surface temp of whatever material it's pointed at. So, you'll have a good idea how the bare components (your intake manifold, throttle body elbow, etc.) will benefit from being shielded the FP mani...which will be a good indicator of how much heat soak is reduced by the addition of a heat shield.

What you won't know is if the J-pipe benefited, because you're not actually getting the temp reading of the actual pipe. You're just getting the temp of the insulation it's wrapped with. You should expose a small section of the bare pipe like you did the FP mani so you can get an accurate surface temp reading on the J-pipe.

Quoting G :

So your intake mani was hotter than your jpipe.



I doubt it, due to the reasons I stated above. The readings are comparing the bare intake manifold temp to the temp of the insulation on the J-pipe. Not an accurate comparison IMO.

I appreciate EfiniX taking the time to do this. I'm dealing with some of these issues myself, and would love to see some real world numbers/improvements. Could Evan grace us with some pics of the heat shield he's fabricating? I had a hell of a time fabbing one up myself, and feel like it was only a marginal improvement if at all. I'm interested in the details here.

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G
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188181 posted 09/09/14 07:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The heat shield needs to be made from an aluminum alloy not steel. Otherwise it just turns in to a big bbq grill.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188190 posted 09/09/14 07:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't know that I've ever seen a heat shield made of Aluminum or Aluminum alloy. The JMF piece is steel.

The main thing any heat shield will do is block some of the direct radiant heat, especially being so close to the radiator.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188197 posted 09/09/14 08:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What's your stock unit made from? What are 99% of all OE units made from across the board from any car manufacturer?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188200 posted 09/09/14 08:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't know what the stock unit is made of. I know it's not made of aluminum though, because aluminum doesn't rust.



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slugsgomoo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188205 posted 09/09/14 08:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Stock is definitely steel lol



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EHmotorsports
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188213 posted 09/09/14 09:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting G:

What's your stock unit made from? What are 99% of all OE units made from across the board from any car manufacturer?




G the heat shields on most production cars are made of steel when it surrounds the manifold. Aluminum is used on the bodywork and exhaust surrounds due to it's quick heat dissipation to remove unwanted heat from the bodywork and wiring,hoses and lines that may be close.



click

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G
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188224 posted 09/09/14 10:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I didn't say aluminum, I said aluminum alloy. Not pure aluminum that doesn't rust. I would like to find this aluminum alloy in bulk:





Most of the heat shields i've seen for our cars are not an aluminum alloy. They are stove tops literally.



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www.nostalgic.co.jp

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EHmotorsports
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188227 posted 09/09/14 10:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
As you can see they are around the body. From the factory up to at least 2012 most manifold shields are made out of a coated steel. Also those "aluminum" nuts are not aluminum or an alloy of.
The top picture is of an r50-r56 Mini Cooper of witch I worked on for the last 7 years.
The problem with using aluminum or an alloy of, on a manifold is you will need to add in something that will reflect the heat back. So a reflective barrer will need to be attached to the underside to keep the heat in. If you use a straight aluminum or an alloy without, the radiant heat will transmit through the shield and provide minimal results.
I have made many shields out of that material for surrounding components. The material will eventually degrade around a manifold as I have tried that also because it is a coated aluminum material.
And you can find that material in bulk of you want to spend 80 for a 12"x14" section.



click


Edited by EHmotorsports (09/09/14 11:11 PM)

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EHmotorsports
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188228 posted 09/09/14 11:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Anyway I should have time to start on making a template Thursday and start fabricating a prototype by next week.



click

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GSTwithPSI
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188260 posted 09/10/14 08:11 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sweet, Evan. Looking forward to see what you come up with!



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JNR
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188321 posted 09/10/14 01:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Usually the metal part serves more as cladding and you want an actual insulating material in-between, to be effective....closer, the better...idea is to retain heat, not so much dissipate (won't go far or work without airflow) it when we're talking exhaust manifolds. Unless of course you're talking "personnel protection", so to speak, then these plate shields that have an airgap would do its job like that.

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188326 posted 09/10/14 01:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSTwithPSI:

The problem with your test is that the infrared thermometer is reading surface temp of whatever material it's pointed at. So, you'll have a good idea how the bare components (your intake manifold, throttle body elbow, etc.) will benefit from being shielded the FP mani...which will be a good indicator of how much heat soak is reduced by the addition of a heat shield.




Yeah, this wasn't meant to be empirical or anything. I wanted to check surface temps on everything after a brisk drive. If they drop, then I can infer the shield is doing its job, regardless of what my intake temps might actually be.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1188327 posted 09/10/14 01:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting EHmotorsports:

Anyway I should have time to start on making a template Thursday and start fabricating a prototype by next week.




Yay! tell me when to drive back out with your bottle of Sage!



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190848 posted 10/08/14 02:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
And bump for the new content.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190866 posted 10/08/14 12:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Looks good! Any pictures of the heat shield off the car? And, how does it attach to the manifold?



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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190870 posted 10/08/14 01:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You know, as discussed in other thread, that using couplers on your hot side pipe is the worst thing in the world to do...



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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190888 posted 10/08/14 07:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'll pass your concerns on to ETS



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190896 posted 10/08/14 08:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This thread sucks and should be restarted with better info on Evan's awesome manifold shield on its own! who cares about temps, we wanna see that blang blang heat shield



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EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190904 posted 10/08/14 09:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      





RIP 543
Ded click
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2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190928 posted 10/09/14 09:50 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting G:

The heat shield needs to be made from an aluminum alloy not steel. Otherwise it just turns in to a big bbq grill.




Why do you say that? From my understanding of radiative heat transfer and heat shields the opposite would be true. Steel has a lower thermal conductivity and thus higher resistance to heat transfer.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190929 posted 10/09/14 10:05 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Barnes:

Quoting G:

The heat shield needs to be made from an aluminum alloy not steel. Otherwise it just turns in to a big bbq grill.




Why do you say that? From my understanding of radiative heat transfer and heat shields the opposite would be true. Steel has a lower thermal conductivity and thus higher resistance to heat transfer.




Why, you ask Jon? Because G constantly talks out of his ass and tries to pass it as fact. Just a typical G post.

On the manifold; Evan's looks wayyyy better than the one I made. I had issues making a shield that covered the manifold, yet still cleared my J-pipe, radiator and driver side cooling fan. In the end, the only way I could fit mine was to remove the driver side cooling fan. This was mostly due to the angle the heat shield sat at, which made it protrude into the space that would normally be taken up by the fan.

The biggest issue I had was attaching the heat shield, which ended up being via a bracket that utilized the 2 center exhaust manifold studs, and also a bolt near the bottom that threaded into the turbine housing. It worked well, but I wish there was a much better solution. That's why I'm curious how Evan mounted the shield he fabbed up.

I ended up removing the heat shield I made in favor of running a secondary slim fan on the driver side of the radiator. I still suffer from some heat soak at low and idle speeds, but have been able to increase airflow across the radiator area enough to keep the car running at manageable temperatures, even at low speeds. I would like to install a heat shield again, I just haven't wanted to mess with fabricating another one from scratch.

EfiniX, if you could post up some more pictures of the construction of Evan's heat shield, that would be awesome. It appears from your video it helped reduce temps for you a great deal. Thanks for updating us!

I apologize in advance if I'm whoring up your thread, but I wanted to post this up for comparison. I'm looking for a better way to make a new heat shield for my own car. I posted this in another thread, but here's the heat shield I fabbed up. Of note, my shield sits at an angle, whereas Evan's appears to sit more even with the radiator. I think that's the way I need to go next time.





Fastener bar attached:




Heat shield mocked up:






Finished product:





Edited by GSTwithPSI (10/09/14 10:10 AM)

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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1190930 posted 10/09/14 10:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Not bad Brett, not bad. I like it painted black. Keeps the low key look.



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