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Removing water pump


coyotes
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1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172187 posted 05/16/14 04:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I've got everything undone, the water pump is off, but I can't get it out between the body and the engine. I've tried everything, raising the engine, lowering the engine.. what's the trick? I feel like an idiot for asking but I seriously can't get it out at all.



1226/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172189 posted 05/16/14 04:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
nevermind, I got it out. sucked.



1226/2000

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gvr4ever
Forever Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172191 posted 05/16/14 04:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You thought getting it out was tricky. Now get it back in without moving the gasket out of place.... Muhahaha.



1992 Nile black w/sunroof
15xK miles. 2nd owner since 1998

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172193 posted 05/16/14 04:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
High tack is a tip^^. Coyote, you're doing your own wp job?



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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172203 posted 05/16/14 05:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes I'm doing it. getting new one in was easier than getting it out, wtf..



1226/2000

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172206 posted 05/16/14 05:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
well congrats on the WP change. how was it getting the timing belt on?



138/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172207 posted 05/16/14 05:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In progress. I had to take a break to make a parts run. gonna get back to it now.



1226/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172210 posted 05/16/14 06:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
alright so while I'm asking stupid questions, here is another. I am putting everything back and getting timing set, but for some reason my tensioner pulley is rubbing on the water pump. Is there supposed to be a washer behind it? I am not missing any hardware to my knowledge... but I cannot figure out why it is rubbing.



1226/2000

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172211 posted 05/16/14 06:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
turn it 180* maybe, without a picture i dont know what your looking at.



138/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172212 posted 05/16/14 06:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I got it figured out, once you put tension on the belt it doesn't rub on anything. I'm just waiting for it to settle now, turned it 6 times and everything lines up. doing the grenade pin shortcut to make sure it's tensioned right.



1226/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172218 posted 05/16/14 07:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
it's all done. just been wasting the last hour trying to get the tension right. turn turn turn, wait 15 minutes. zzzz. at least I have learned a lot doing this, it's not so bad.



1226/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172223 posted 05/16/14 08:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ah well, can't finish it tonight. having a hard time getting the tension just right. Will have to save it for another day.



1226/2000

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Steve885
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172240 posted 05/16/14 10:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What was wrong with your pump??was it making noise..didn't u get a new rad earlier this year?

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172241 posted 05/16/14 11:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
it was leaving little puddles of coolant everywhere I parked. I would hear some sorta noise too but that turned out to be the harmonic balancer going bad.

I just did the whole cooling system, new hoses, thermostat, CTS, radiator. Timing belt was done in december but I didn't do the water pump. flame away



1226/2000

Posts: 1544 | From: Seattle, WA | Member Since: 11/15/13 | IP: (67.168.143.160) | Report this post to a Moderator

Steve885
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172242 posted 05/16/14 11:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No flaming here I do everything twice....

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gvr4ever
Forever Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172370 posted 05/17/14 09:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting coyotes:

it was leaving little puddles of coolant everywhere I parked. I would hear some sorta noise too but that turned out to be the harmonic balancer going bad.

I just did the whole cooling system, new hoses, thermostat, CTS, radiator. Timing belt was done in december but I didn't do the water pump. flame away




Why do something once when you can do it twice for twice the knuckle bashing?



1992 Nile black w/sunroof
15xK miles. 2nd owner since 1998

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1172414 posted 05/18/14 10:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is my first time doing timing on 4g63, my mechanic friend did it for me in December. I don't have a garage but the weather has been nice so I did it myself.



1226/2000

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173055 posted 05/22/14 06:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok so I need some more help. The tensioner pulley rubs on the water pump in almost every range of its adjustment on the tensioner pulley arm. Is there supposed to be a washer behind it? I am not missing any hardware or put anything back in a wrong spot to my knowlege...

If I tension the belt properly so the grenade pin goes in and out easily, the timing belt rubs against the bolt securing the tensioner pulley arm to the engine mount. It was suggested I tension the bolt CCW even though the 1g guide says go CW. I cannot properly set tension on the belt going CW due to no room for my tensioner tool. What gives?? I am really frustrated, bummed I can't fix my car. Please help




Nothing is tensioned in this picture, I am just showing to show where I am at. Is there supposed to be a washer behind the tensioner pulley to space things out? Sorry I sound like an idiot but I just want to make my car run again.



1226/2000


Edited by coyotes (05/22/14 06:04 PM)

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173058 posted 05/22/14 06:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The pulley will only rub only when the tensioner is in the wrong position. There is no spacer behind it. If it is rubbing, it's not positioned correctly. I'm not sure what this method of tensioning the belt using the grenade pin is all about. I've never heard of that, and that's probably what's throwing you off. There should be a 3.8-4.5 between the tensioner arm and body. I use a 4mm allen wrench to set the gap when I do my belts. Quit trying to use the grenade pin as a reference for tensioning the belt, and I bet you'll get it right no problem.



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brisvr4
Oceania Distict Enforcer for the Galant VR4 Mafia


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173059 posted 05/22/14 06:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The pulley is clocked wrong. it needs to be cw.
I use a method that I found on vfaq using a drill bit to set tension.
Works easy and hasn't failed me with multiple timing belt jobs over the last decade or so!

Below is taken directly from vfaq.


"Here is how I set the tension whether I am using a new tensioner or not:

I do not use an Allen wrench on the tensioner as noted previously, I just let the tensioner expand all the way
Once the belt is installed, I place a .150" drillbit (or the nearest larger size I have) on the top of the tensioner body, and screw in the tensioner tool until it captures the drillbit between the tensioner body and tensioner pulley bracket. When the bracket is close to the drillbit, I start spinning the drillbit, and stop screwing in the tool as soon as the bracket stops it from spinning. In other words, I stop when the pulley bracket is just snug against the bit.
I place a flatblade screwdriver between the engine and tensioner pulley, and lightly pry up on the pulley
I torque the pulley down
I back off the tensioner tool several turns, and immediately check the tensioner gap - if it has gotten too small or too large right away, I redo the steps above, changing the pressure used on the screwdriver. If the gap looks OK, I spin the engine 6 turns and wait 15 minutes and check the gap again.
There are other ways to do this, but this works best for me"

click

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173060 posted 05/22/14 06:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
it's this method:

Quote:

Sometimes with the engine in the car, measuring the distance between the tensioner arm and auto tensioner body (usually with a drill bit) is hard to see or do. Example: Can't get in there or see if drill bit is truly parallel to the tensioner top (which affects measurement) or you can’t get a 2.6 ft-lb torque wrench on the tensioner pulley special tool #MLR-MD-998767. You can replace all that complicated tensioning torque stuff (which you can rarely get right with the engine in the car anyway - no room) with the following alternative. Just adjust the tensioner pulley so that the auto tensioner holding pin (eg. 1/16” allen wrench) moves freely all the way through the auto tensioner body and pin holes (after you turn the crankshaft and wait for the belt to stretch and auto tensioner to settle). Adjust the tensioner pulley to do this and it will automatically make the distance between the tensioner arm and auto tensioner body (drill bit measurement) be about .157 in. (spec is .150 - .177 in.). I've done over a dozen dsm timing belts this way every one done correctly. In fact you don’t have to get the Miller tool #MLR-MD-998767 (at OTC/SPX 800-533-0492) to adjust the tensioner pulley (with 2.6 ft-lbs torque – ya right) as the DSM manual states. Instead you can use a 90 degree pliers in the 2 tensioner pulley holes to adjust it (you may have to cut off one of the handles to clear the compressor pulley and grind the tips a little). Or you can put an allen wrench in one of the tensioner pulley holes and use the tensioner pulley bolt with your socket as a pivot point (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56211).




I can tension the belt properly but then the belt will rub on the bolt holding the arm to the block.



1226/2000

Posts: 1544 | From: Seattle, WA | Member Since: 11/15/13 | IP: (67.168.143.160) | Report this post to a Moderator

coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173061 posted 05/22/14 06:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting brisvr4:

The pulley is clocked wrong. it needs to be cw.
I use a method that I found on vfaq using a drill bit to set tension.
Works easy and hasn't failed me with multiple timing belt jobs over the last decade or so!

Below is taken directly from vfaq.


"Here is how I set the tension whether I am using a new tensioner or not:

I do not use an Allen wrench on the tensioner as noted previously, I just let the tensioner expand all the way
Once the belt is installed, I place a .150" drillbit (or the nearest larger size I have) on the top of the tensioner body, and screw in the tensioner tool until it captures the drillbit between the tensioner body and tensioner pulley bracket. When the bracket is close to the drillbit, I start spinning the drillbit, and stop screwing in the tool as soon as the bracket stops it from spinning. In other words, I stop when the pulley bracket is just snug against the bit.
I place a flatblade screwdriver between the engine and tensioner pulley, and lightly pry up on the pulley
I torque the pulley down
I back off the tensioner tool several turns, and immediately check the tensioner gap - if it has gotten too small or too large right away, I redo the steps above, changing the pressure used on the screwdriver. If the gap looks OK, I spin the engine 6 turns and wait 15 minutes and check the gap again.
There are other ways to do this, but this works best for me"

click




Thanks, perhaps I will try this method tomorrow. I haven't been feeling so hot on this lately, maybe I will just have someone come over that knows what they are doing and show me how.



1226/2000

Posts: 1544 | From: Seattle, WA | Member Since: 11/15/13 | IP: (67.168.143.160) | Report this post to a Moderator

desant78
Member ++
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995/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173062 posted 05/22/14 06:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You are so close! As stated, the tensioner went the wrong way. I usually set it to 11 o'clock and that puts the proper tension on the hydraulic tensioner. I also use the jay racing kit, and the special tool allows you to use a 8mm wrench. I would strongly suggest the kit, makes them easy! Best of luck!



i wanna go fast.

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
1226/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173063 posted 05/22/14 06:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting BogusSVO:

I go CCW, that way if the bolt loosens, the pulley will move with the belt and tighten up.

Going CW, the belt will kick the pulley and let the belt go slack and skip teeth.




Bogus gave me some bogus info I guess. No big deal, I will just try it again tomorrow. With the "eyes" in the tensioner pulley at 11 it won't set proper tension on my car. It needs to go a bit further, but the side engine mount is in the way of my tool. I am setting tension with everything at TDC, is this the right position to have it in when setting tension? I have been setting tension via the grenade pin technique, where when the grenade pin slides in and out of the tensioner smoothly the tension is properly set. But I still can't get it right.



1226/2000


Edited by coyotes (05/22/14 06:41 PM)

Posts: 1544 | From: Seattle, WA | Member Since: 11/15/13 | IP: (67.168.143.160) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1173064 posted 05/22/14 07:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting brisvr4:

The pulley is clocked wrong. it needs to be cw.
I use a method that I found on vfaq using a drill bit to set tension.
Works easy and hasn't failed me with multiple timing belt jobs over the last decade or so!

Below is taken directly from vfaq.


"Here is how I set the tension whether I am using a new tensioner or not:

I do not use an Allen wrench on the tensioner as noted previously, I just let the tensioner expand all the way
Once the belt is installed, I place a .150" drillbit (or the nearest larger size I have) on the top of the tensioner body, and screw in the tensioner tool until it captures the drillbit between the tensioner body and tensioner pulley bracket. When the bracket is close to the drillbit, I start spinning the drillbit, and stop screwing in the tool as soon as the bracket stops it from spinning. In other words, I stop when the pulley bracket is just snug against the bit.
I place a flatblade screwdriver between the engine and tensioner pulley, and lightly pry up on the pulley
I torque the pulley down
I back off the tensioner tool several turns, and immediately check the tensioner gap - if it has gotten too small or too large right away, I redo the steps above, changing the pressure used on the screwdriver. If the gap looks OK, I spin the engine 6 turns and wait 15 minutes and check the gap again.
There are other ways to do this, but this works best for me"

click




As Coyotes said, the pulley shown in the pic isn't tensioned, which is why it's clocked wrong. I don't use a drill bit because it's too hard to locate it properly with the motor in the car. With an allen wrench, you can use the L shape to your advantage. You dip the small part of the L between the tensioner body and the arm, while using the handle of the allen wrench to center it on the tensioner body. This process allows you to properly locate the allen wrench without even having to look at the tensioner. Everything else you said I pretty much follow verbatim. Regardless of the tool used to check the tensioner gap, the steps you listed are exactly what you need to do in order to tension the belt properly.

Using the tensioner pin to set the initial gap would be worthless IMO. As brisvr4 pointed out, you need to be able to force the tensioner arm against something solid when initially setting the gap. I don't see how the tensioner pin would allow for that. The pin is made for 1 thing; holding the tensioner in place during shipping. The only other time I use it is when I remove the timing belt completely. I guess everyone has their own way of doing a TB job, but that's not one I'd ever use personally. The tensioner is always at about 11 O'clock on every motor I've ever done:








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Edited by GSTwithPSI (05/22/14 07:18 PM)

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