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Front Hub?


BpuVR4
Rolled by Accord while sauced


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124548 posted 05/21/13 07:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Curious what guys have done if they needed a new front wheel hub. Car is apart at shop for a bearing job right now, and i didn't think it might need a hub....and lo and behold it does. Even tried to get a price from a dealer here, steep at 200, but also 2 month wait?? Is there an alternative to trying junkyards, and if so cross reference w another car? Can't find anything via rockauto, advanced, or anything.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124551 posted 05/21/13 07:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you're willing to delete the abs I can get you one from a base model at the junkyard. $200 is crazy!



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124552 posted 05/21/13 07:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
post up a wanted to buy, someone has done a five lug conversion & has a couple lying around.



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BpuVR4
Rolled by Accord while sauced


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124557 posted 05/21/13 08:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i seriously just spent the last 3 hours scouring online to find one- new, used whatever. my friend found one for me on ebay just a couple states away so I pounced on it, hoping it's decent quality. Yea, two of the dealers I called both said it'd take 1-2months and around 200. I guess a warning guys, if you're gonna do your front bearings and think it got hot, be ready.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124561 posted 05/21/13 08:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
what was the reason for needing a new hub? did they mess it up trying to get it out?



click

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BpuVR4
Rolled by Accord while sauced


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124563 posted 05/21/13 08:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
theyre saying it got too hot. ive used this shop before and they haven't screwed me yet, so i will accept that i did it. im just glad my car's not gonna sit on their lift longer than need be cause of this.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124574 posted 05/21/13 09:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've got a few of these.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124585 posted 05/21/13 10:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Properly pressed, they should not have needed heat to change this.



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BpuVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124624 posted 05/22/13 01:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^ i meant heat as in wear from driving on the bearing. i honestly didn't drive much on it, i had thought a broken control arm was contributing to that sound when i got right down to it, but was wrong.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124625 posted 05/22/13 01:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Please request your old parts back, take a pic and post it up.

... I"m curious what they are calling "heat" damage

thanks!



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124653 posted 05/22/13 10:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've done hundreds of front wheel bearings/hubs over the years and never heard or seen bearings cause excessive heat and cause the knuckle to fail.

To be clear though, are you talking about the knuckle, bearing, or the spindle.

PM me I can get you parts as needed, but I doubt you do.

I wanna see pics. I think that shop is clueless or damaged it for you and they should pay.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124681 posted 05/22/13 12:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
while rare, I have had to replace hubs. a couple just cause I didn't feel good about them & I don't want a dead or injured customer.

when the bearing fails a lot of heat gets dumped to the hub itself, sometimes the race will spin & make the hub not run true anymore. I doubt the shop is too off base with wanting to replace it.

And he's talking about the hub itself.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124683 posted 05/22/13 12:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So we are talking about the rear then?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124684 posted 05/22/13 01:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
no, front. the hub that presses into the bearing. not the knuckle itself.



How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a very large one!!!

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124688 posted 05/22/13 01:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You mean the spindle.....

A hub is considered a bearing assembly.

Also I have never seen or ever heard of a bearing race spinning on the spindle (hub as it's being called). I might be wrong, but that seems very hard to believe as the race is more firmly attached to the spindle than the bearing itself. Now if the bearing got that hot that it would do that, then I must say you had to have ruined everything else too.

To the OP I would request the parts back. I still think the shop damaged this themselves are trying to get out of it.



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SouthCaliVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124707 posted 05/22/13 04:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
not to thread jack....

No, I mean the hub. A spindle would include the knuckle on a rear drive with conventional front inner & outer bearings. so while you & yours may use "hub" as different meaning than the norm, industry standard refers to the hub as the portion that the wheel bolts to. whether front drive, rear drive or all wheel drive. sometimes the hub is incorporated into the brake rotor sometimes they are separate, like on ours.



How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a very large one!!!

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holeshotmoe
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124708 posted 05/22/13 04:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting BpuVR4:

^ i meant heat as in wear from driving on the bearing. i honestly didn't drive much on it, i had thought a broken control arm was contributing to that sound when i got right down to it, but was wrong.




I've been driving on my noisy bearing about 5 months now!



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124716 posted 05/22/13 05:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting SouthCaliVR4:

not to thread jack....

No, I mean the hub. A spindle would include the knuckle on a rear drive with conventional front inner & outer bearings. so while you & yours may use "hub" as different meaning than the norm, industry standard refers to the hub as the portion that the wheel bolts to. whether front drive, rear drive or all wheel drive. sometimes the hub is incorporated into the brake rotor sometimes they are separate, like on ours.




You are right there, I looked it up. Mitsu calls it a hub too. I was thinking that anytime you have a shaft piece it would be called a spindle. Learn something new everyday.

I still don't see how the hub would get so hot and ruin it.



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BpuVR4
Rolled by Accord while sauced


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124718 posted 05/22/13 06:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting holeshotmoe:

Quoting BpuVR4:

^ i meant heat as in wear from driving on the bearing. i honestly didn't drive much on it, i had thought a broken control arm was contributing to that sound when i got right down to it, but was wrong.




I've been driving on my noisy bearing about 5 months now!




holy cow...well i dont know haha. kinda makes me feel a little better someone didn't jump on it right away either.

i'd like to remind that im sure that my control arm shearing in half on the other side probably aided i whatever bad happened w the bearing on this side. I don't have any real answers. I originally thought the bearing was starting to make some noise so I drove it very sparingly thinking I had to get it done. Then in that time, my pass side control arm broke. I figured fixing that would eliminate the noise, but it didn't. Now I'm back to bearing r/r. I figure this will be the finale to this whole fiasco, and wish the hub would hurry up and get here.



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SouthCaliVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124724 posted 05/22/13 06:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A growling bearing is a different issue & generally won't cause too much damage. That is caused by pitting of the races or the balls themselves. if the bearing is full on failing then you will get massive heat built up in a very concentrated area. this heat makes the inner race over expand & spin on the hub. that is where the hub gets damaged.



How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a very large one!!!

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BpuVR4
Rolled by Accord while sauced


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124730 posted 05/22/13 07:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have to ask, are bearings going bad always audible? I've never actually had to do this repair on any car I've had.



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Edited by BpuVR4 (05/22/13 07:54 PM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124762 posted 05/22/13 11:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No, sometimes they just get loose but that would be the rare exception. if you find a loose wheel bearing re-torque & it works loose again the bearing is bad.

Bad wheel bearings will also cause excessive brake pedal travel or stacking.



How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a very large one!!!

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124764 posted 05/22/13 11:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Loose wheel bearings are an exception and rare?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124775 posted 05/23/13 01:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is what a "noisy" wheel bearing looks like when you tear it down.





There's a lot of ways to end up here, but a lot of times, it's something we did.

... to put it another way, they don;t fail in service very often without a cause.


When they start to make noise, you're hearing the effect of unround balls rolling in an unsmooth race


This happens a couple of different ways, but it usually starts with a flat spot on one or more of the balls and/or a "dent" in the race.

The most common way this happens is flat rate mooks have used an impact gun to install/remove the axle nut while performing one service or another that requires the removal of the front axles. It's torque spec is (grrrr, can;t remember off the top of my head

... so I'll just say, preetty fawkin tight

and the "rattle" of the impact gun will pound the assemble in a way they will never see in service, especially when a gun is used to tighten them!



Nothing drastic happens,

... immediately ...

and a few folks will probablly argue that they do it all the time with no problems.

Thing is, they have just for all intents and purposes, perfomed a brinnell test between two very hard surfaces, and either the ball now has a flat spot, or the race has a small dent.


gaur~an~damn~teed


Now, every time the flat spot of the ball hits the race, a high shock loading will be delivered to a very small local area. This will make a teeny, tiny dent. Over time, enough denting will occur to make the surface of the race bumpy, which fawks up the rest of the balls, which procceeds to make more dents,

...eventually the thing looks like ten miles off washboarded road, and none of the balls are round.

(Click on the pic above, then click the "+" over the race on the left, that's ~1000 miles after an axle replacemet where McGilla the Gorilla used a gun to tighten the axle nut)


... sounded like there was a dc-3 taxiying for take off up in the front of the car.




Another way to end up here is by applying a load without an axle in place, holding things together.




A lot of times, folks will pull the axles to yoke the motor/trans, and then life intervines and the car has to be moved.

... without an axle in it/the outter c.v. pinching the two races/halves together, the races can 'walk" on the hub.

Again, nothing drastic happens

...immediately ...

And a lot of times, you might get lucky and get away with it, but many times things don;t cinch up just like they were. When you install an axle and tighten things up, the preload will be off when you do torque it up.

... too loose, and then the balls won't track well, and they'll make an oblong "orbit" instead of just rotating symmetrically in their races.

Again, you might get a couple of thousand miles out of it before it starts making noise,

... but the faster you drive/more you load it up in the twisties, the sooner it will die.

gaur~an~damn~teed

To keep things pinched together, I've used a couple of t-case bolts combined with a couple of nuts and large area washers off the front crossmember as a get by/temporary solution.

... anything to keep it all squarshed together so the car can be moved.




Unfortunately, even if you think ahead and cobble something together, it won;t seal up very well, and this can allow dirt and moisture to enter.

...that's what killed the bearing on the right in the top picture. Buddy listened well and cobblefied some random hardware and pinched it together. he then rolled it over to the wash bay and procceeded to steam the engine compartment till it was clean clean.

... got about 500 miles down the road, and things went sour.




This is why this is my favorite technique for dealing with jsb status is to "ginzu" an old axle and use the stub as a prop. This lets you torque things back up before applying any load, so nothing moves.

It seals up well enough to steam the engine compartment without contaminating the bearing, and you can roll it over to the wash bay without hurting a damn thing.

... hell you can even load it on a roll back and move it from shop to shop


... for years





... like a lucky charm



... not that I would know anything about that

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SouthCaliVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1124780 posted 05/23/13 01:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting prove_it:

Loose wheel bearings are an exception and rare?




Edited for clarity; For them to demonstrate they're going bad only by getting loose while not making any noise.



How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a very large one!!!


Edited by SouthCaliVR4 (05/23/13 02:05 AM)

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